Schengen days at sea

[Garold]

I’m sure that I’ve read somewhere that days at sea in the EU don’t count towards the 90 in 180. So, as far as I understand, days at sea on passage are not counted. Is that right?

How does it work? Midnight to midnight?

Thank you.

 

[Kelpie]

I believe that's correct, in practice I think what would count would be the time between ports of entry.

 

[Graham376]

I believe that's correct, in practice I think what would count would be the time between ports of entry.

Seems reasonable that time in coastal waters between stops (marinas, anchorages etc) would keep the clock running but, what's happening about using ports of entry to stop or start the clock? I've not heard of anyone arriving or travelling between Portugal, Spain & Gib being told to enter or leave via specific ports, it appears nothing has changed around here, what about other areas?

 

[FirstAway]

I’m sure that I’ve read somewhere that days at sea in the EU don’t count towards the 90 in 180. So, as far as I understand, days at sea on passage are not counted. Is that right?

How does it work? Midnight to midnight?

Thank you.

As far as I understand it you are technically correct, but you would have to check out of and into each country at a port of entry to get your passport stamped to stop the clock. Both day of entry and day of exit count as a full day, so unless on a long passage it would be a small saving.

 

[webcraft]

As far as I understand it you are technically correct, but you would have to check out of and into each country at a port of entry to get your passport stamped to stop the clock. Both day of entry and day of exit count as a full day, so unless on a long passage it would be a small saving.

Well worth it for boats on passage to the Canaries for the ARC or just an Atlantic Circuit.

Saves 5 days Schengen time between Spain/Portugal and the Canaries.

- W

 

[[3889]]

How does it work?

Now there's a question. Now doubt it will be answered shortly after the publication of a unified theory of everything.

 

[Garold]

Now there's a question. Now doubt it will be answered shortly after the publication of a unified theory of everything.

I was just thinking that since Brexit there’s so many changes that I feel like a first time overseas traveler.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Ue this calculator to record days in / out in any 90 day period Short-stay Visa Calculator - Migration and Home Affairs - European Commission You have to be more than 12 miles offshore.

 

[Mistroma]

Ue this calculator to record days in / out in any 90 day period Short-stay Visa Calculator - Migration and Home Affairs - European Commission You have to be more than 12 miles offshore.

I remember seeing that calculator ages ago and thinking it would only take a few minutes with Excel to provide the answer in I couldn't get online.

My assumption was that it was likely to be simple in an airport. The clock would start when immigration officials passed you through for entry and stop again when you went through for exit. If you arrive at 23:59 on 1st Feb. and leave a few hours later on 2nd Feb. then it would count as 2 days. It seemed reasonable that it wouldn't count as an extra day if your flight was delayed and left at 00:01.

It seemed reasonable but offiicals aren't always reasonable.

It becomes even worse in a boat as they could use different departure dates & times.

1. When they stamp your passport and log details in the port where you depart
2. When you cast off or raise anchor
3. When you leave their territorial waters

I imagine you'd mostly get away with option 1, as long as you don't hang around too long and take the p***.
Option 2 and 3 require an official to check on your compliance after you've left the office.

My expectation was that it would usually be option 1. Of course it might be a country well known for extracting fines and it would be whatever the wanted.

It isn't something I've thought about much as it doesn't affect me personally.

 

[Sea Devil]

I think it's like most 'practique' when you are leaving, you get your clearance - passport stamped and probably scanned and go to the boat and sail away... then when you arrive at the next EU port/marina you get go to the office - fill out the entry form and get your passport stamped and probably scanned and the central EU computer is notified automatically of both events.

Clearly if the passage is under 24 hours then it's simply not worth clearing out as the entry into Schengen allows you to travel without further paperwork or passport stamping for 90/180.. If the passage is over 24 hours then it's worth clearing out of the EU and the niceties of if you actually enter or leave EU waters will probably not bother anyone -

 

[Deleted member 36384]

You have to actually sail out of the 12 mile jurisdiction. When I travel to rigs in EU waters, I exit the country if the rig is more than 12 miles offshore, or remain in the country if the rig is less than 12 miles. All explained to me by CIBT, hired by my employer to explain implications post Brexit.

 

[Sea Devil]

You have to actually sail out of the 12 mile jurisdiction. When I travel to rigs in EU waters, I exit the country if the rig is more than 12 miles offshore, or remain in the country if the rig is less than 12 miles. All explained to me by CIBT, hired by my employer to explain implications post Brexit.

Yes I am sure you are correct but the reality is the 'clock' stops when the Port Police stamps your passport - well that day so I suspect the assumption is that by midnight you have cleared their territorial waters... Probably a technicality but worth bearing in mind...

 

[nortada]

Yes I am sure you are correct but the reality is the 'clock' stops when the Port Police stamps your passport - well that day so I suspect the assumption is that by midnight you have cleared their territorial waters... Probably a technicality but worth bearing in mind...

Suspect as they stamp your passport, they give you no further thought. Your port of arrival may show some passing interest but I doubt it.

Overall I think many are worrying needlessly about the 90/180 rule. Flagrant breaches will probably bring retribution but minor infractions could go unnoticed. Port immigration have far more to worry about (drugs, guns, people, biometric cards, industrial disputes and even wild fires) than yotties overstaying their welcome.

Schengen is very much a Brussels baby so some individual countries (especially in Southern Europe) may give it scant attention. Most ports of entry are not equipped with scanners so the first indication of attitude will be on arrival if you get your passport even looked at and stamped.

At present all is supposition. Now in the height of the season there must be a lot of people ‘floating’ internationally so what is required is feed back of experience - both bad but especially good. Or is no news good news

Final point to note - If you get stamped in, do make sure you get stamped out

Any enterprising person thought of manufacturing their own stamp.?

 

[RobbieW]

...hotties overstaying their welcome...

In my experience these are always welcome for as long as they want to stay

 

[Sea Devil]

Suspect as they stamp your passport, they give you no further thought. Your port of arrival may show some passing interest but I doubt it.

Overall I think many are worrying needlessly about the 90/180 rule. Flagrant breaches will probably bring retribution bit minor infractions could go unnoticed. Port immigration have far more to worry about (drugs, guns, people, biometric cards, industrial disputes and even wild fires) than hotties overstaying their welcome.

Schengen is very much a Brussels baby so some individual countries (especially in Southern Europe) may give it scant attention. Most ports of entry are not equipped with scanners so the first indication of attitude will be on arrival if you get your passport even looked at and stamped.

At present all is supposition. Now in the height of the season there must be a lot of people ‘floating’ internationally so what is required is feed back of experience - both bad but especially good. Or is no news good news

Final point to note - If you get stamped in, do make sure you get stamped out‼

Any enterprising person thought of manufacturing their own stamp.?

Well I hope your right, but a UK border force guy working in Calais told me there is a central EU Schengen computer that gradually all scanners are being joined to and that of course will automatically record entries and exits to the EU and total the 90/180 day right of that passport number...

Taking a while for it all to be joined up but of course all the major ferry ports as well as airports have scanners - Quite how it will work when they visit you on your boat in a non ferry port remains to be seen...

Earlier in this thread someone posted about a UK crew in a non ferry port being confined to their boat for almost 48 hours waiting for Port Police to drive to their marina.... And I know that is the intention of Calais Port Police with Boulogne sur mer Marina because they told me - mind you it's only a 30 minute drive...

I am not as sanguine about the 90/180 rule as you are but I agree countries like Spain and Portugal just want to make life as easy as possible for UK tourists and 22nd home owners to visit

 

[25931]

Well I hope your right, but a UK border force guy working in Calais told me there is a central EU Schengen computer that gradually all scanners are being joined to and that of course will automatically record entries and exits to the EU and total the 90/180 day right of that passport number...

Taking a while for it all to be joined up but of course all the major ferry ports as well as airports have scanners - Quite how it will work when they visit you on your boat in a non ferry port remains to be seen...

Earlier in this thread someone posted about a UK crew in a non ferry port being confined to their boat for almost 48 hours waiting for Port Police to drive to their marina.... And I know that is the intention of Calais Port Police with Boulogne sur mer Marina because they told me - mind you it's only a 30 minute drive...

I am not as sanguine about the 90/180 rule as you are but I agree countries like Spain and Portugal just want to make life as easy as possible for UK tourists and 22nd home owners to visit

Anyone with 22 homes is certain to be welcome anywhere

 

[srm]

In the Azores you have to check in and out of each marina, even on the same island.
Pre-brexit we were checking out of Ponta Delgada and the frontier officer assumed we were heading for continental Portugal. He stamped out my Canadian wife's passport as"you may go to Morocco instead". A couple of weeks later, having only gone to a neighbouring none entry port we were back in Ponta Delgada and had to ask another officer to give her an entry stamp to Schengen zone.

While sailing in Scandinavia we had to go to the police station of official entry ports to get her stamped in and out of Schengen.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

When clearing out of a country, once you are through, passports stamped etc. ... you are expected to leave the territorial waters by the most direct route. No stopping again, or anchoring. I used to have to do this every 18 months to reset the TA clock on my non-VAT paid boat - both crew and boat were "stamped" out. When returning, the opposite was the case.

There may well be arrangements with marinas etc. for tourists to make it all a bit less hassle than having to head directly to a port of entry, but the main point is - whatever you do, if a policeman asks to see your passport in the schengen area, they will be looking for your last schengen entry stamp to do a quick mental calculation. I have already been asked this question when using my UK passport - the policeman flicked through every page and then asked directly why I had no entry stamp.

If you don't have a get-out-of jail free card in the form of a residency permit for the country you are stopped in or a valid EU passport then it's pot luck what happens to you if the numbers don't add up.