Scary moment, colregs, seamanship, opinions welcome

[sailoppopotamus]

This occurred a few months ago and I'm wondering if I handled it right, and what I could've done better.

I'm sailing in a WNW heading from Sounio (Greece) to Aegina, somewhat upwind in a SW F5 wind on a port tack. Boat is 30ft, VHF on CH16, no AIS, just me and my girlfriend onboard (not much of a sailor, but have over 1k nm together). A reef in, autopilot on the helm, daylight, very good visibility.

We're about 1nm south of the TSS, several big ships in the area. I'm keeping an eye out on the most imminent threat. The relative bearing to her stern is decisively moving to port, so we're all good to pass astern of her with a healthy safety margin.

Suddenly, the ship starts turning to port, and very quickly our bows are facing each other. I'm quite unnerved at this point as I've never been on a bow-on-bow situation with a ship before, and not sure of the captain's intentions. I figure that colregs are out at this point and common sense must prevail, i.e. at least let's pass red on red, so I begin to turn downwind. However the ship continues to turn to port while I'm turning downwind (to starboard). Less than a minute passes, with the ship continuing its course adjustment, and me trying to turn downwind so as to pass red-on-red. A few moments pass, and I begin to get quite nervous and care less about colregs. The ship is continuing its turn so we reverse tactics, sheet in, and head upwind to the best of our ability. We cleared each other green-on-green, with maybe a couple of hundred meters to spare, which is far too close for my liking given the tonnage of the threat.

In my point of view, I think the captain was wrong to create a situation when there was none to begin with -- a few minutes later we would've cleared their stern and they could've made their turn with minimal drama. We're not bobbing along, we're moving at a good 6 kts and would've cleared quite quickly.

It is also probably true that if we maintained course, there would've been no drama either -- the ship would've made its turn and probably avoided us. On the other hand, I'm a little boat, with no illusions about having the "right of way", trying my best to avoid ships altogether, colregs be damned. So when I see a massive ship's bow turn to a collision course with me I'm trying to do my part to avoid any possibility of this occurring and try to pass red-on-red.

Any feedback/opinion on how I handled this is welcome. Was I wrong to not maintain course, or was it sensible to turn downwind to avoid a head-on collision?

 

[doug748]

Looks to me that the ship was wrong to turn onto your course at close range, even if he knew/thought he could clear you by continuing his turn. More likely he did not see you. There is a rule that you can't drive like a dodgem car and put other vessels in the toils - somebody will quote it soon.

Sounds like you did fine, perhaps it could be argued that it is a mistake to assume red to red in open waters and you should have hung on a bit? However I was not there and what do you do? Sometimes you have to try summut, a matter of fine judgement, of the moment. Main thing there was no panic and (as the cricketers say) you watched the ball right on to the bat.

.

 

[MoodySabre]

My take is that the ship had not seen you. The ultimate responsibility is for you to take action that will avoid a collision.
You turned to starboard which is correct. I think that you did all you could. Scary stuff. The end of a TSS is always going to be unpredictable.
This is the advantage of AIS incorporated in an a VHF - rate of turn and ability to call up at the touch of a button.

 

[sailoppopotamus]

I'm fighting my best against Greek bureaucracy and, regardless of the outcome, will have AIS moving forward, that's for sure. At least then I have the assurance that my grievances can be specifically communicated to whichever vessel I perceived has wronged me, rather than having to rely on the visibility of my middle finger ex post facto.

Having said that, I'm an amateur sailor with a small boat, against a licensed commercial captain with 100x my mileage, so I acknowledge that perhaps I may be in the wrong here, hence why I'm soliciting the forum's opinions on this event.

 

[Elessar]

My take is that the ship had not seen you. The ultimate responsibility is for you to take action that will avoid a collision.
You turned to starboard which is correct. I think that you did all you could. Scary stuff. The end of a TSS is always going to be unpredictable.
This is the advantage of AIS incorporated in an a VHF - rate of turn and ability to call up at the touch of a button.

So right in every word.

Yet the colregs prohibit that call (or do they just discourage? - cant remember) . Still, it's what I (and many others) do though.

 

[RupertW]

Colregs help much less in Greece than most countries. Might is right combines with local ships and boats having their regular routes and turning points which they won’t deviate from by one metre unless the colliding vessel is bigger.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Having said that, I'm an amateur sailor with a small boat, against a licensed commercial captain with 100x my mileage, so I acknowledge that perhaps I may be in the wrong here, hence why I'm soliciting the forum's opinions on this event.

I don’t hold with the ‘I’m only an amateur sailor etc bit’. You can behave professionally whatever the circumstances etc.

My experience of Greek waters is that local vessels fly fast and loose with respect to IRPCS. It’s not just yachts that suffer either. I’ve been on a warship where we were driven to distraction (and the captain got very little sleep) by the unpredictable antics of local vessels.

AIS is a great friend.

Personally I very very rarely talk to another vessel re IRPCS.

PS. You tried to obey IRPCS and ultimately avoided collision so IMHO you did well.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Apart from ‘alls well that ends well’, you must have dine the right thing since you're still afloat. In my admittedly limited experience, it would be useless to call them up. Not only is a Greek ship likely to be not listening, turned off or faulty, they’re also unlikely to have an English speaking operator, or at least, one who’ll admit to it. I love Greece, and love sailing there. But I find shallow water to be a good friend. At least you only meet boats your own size.

 

[Roberto]

Yet the colregs prohibit that call (or do they just discourage? - cant remember) . Still, it's what I (and many others) do though.

It's on an MCGA document
https://assets.publishing.service.g...keeping_Safety_-_Use_of_VHF_Radio_and_AIS.pdf
Still, a DSC individual call will avoid any misidentification, and at least in my case I would never discuss complex maneuvers, just "Have you seen me? Do you want me to do anything to help, etc" to which 99% of the time they reply "keep your course and speed". Also, a DSC call and radio communication being probably recorded aboard a ship, I think that a radio officer hearing terms like "Ship xyz we are on a collision course" would most likely react. Nothing to lose even if they are not listening.

 

[Uricanejack]

I can’t post the reputed origin of the International Code of Signals YG for fear of being in breach of forum rules.
Certainly have memories of operating in the med the same applies to most of the locals as far as I recall.
While in the end self preservation trumps all.

Not sure I have your situation correct. It appears to me.

You were a sailing vessel heading WNW with a SW wind or roughy 6 point of the wind in F5 ish at about 6 knots.
1m S of TSS is a little vague assume crossing a TSS rather than South of the end of it.
You believe you will pass astern. Of a commercial vessel. Based on a relative bearing taken by? Which is changing to port.

My assumption the commercial vessel is somewhere on your starboard side. Distance relatively close and bearing changing.

Unfortunately we don’t know what the OOW was seeing, I expect he was looking as opposed to hoping the dog would bark.

Possibility. already suggested he wasn’t looking and just altered blind. I think unlikely.

More probably you were seen. Which leave two probabilities

He is a power driven vessel with a sailing vessel crossing on his port side.
He observes and concludes it will be a close quarters.
determines he is give way vessel.
chooses to give way by altering to port. Why? It’s the quickest and easiest way to avoid the sail boat by going around its stern.

He is not going to go for a R to R this is G to G perfectly sane normal responses for a vessel which is give way to a vessel on its port side.

The other probability.

same as above instead of determining a close quarters situation is developing.
The OOW dermines there will be no close quarters situation and he is free to alter course for some other navigational purpose and decides to alter boldly to port.

Again to pass astern.
Possibly less than entirely prudent. To make this alteration until you were past and clear but in confined waters perhaps not unreasonable.
Put it this way, I probably wouldn’t interfere, I’d let an OOW do it. I might ask what his plan was and if he had any concerns.
Then I’d watch for the maybe not inevitable outcome.
If as I suspected, the little boat got concerned and turned towards him.
Ok now what you going to do.
You were lucky.
OOW gets 3 out of 10 for planning.
but he gets 8 out of 10. For recovery.

When you made a possibly fatal error of altering towards or in the direction of a give way vessel. Instead of changing his mind and trying to stop his alteration and turn back to starboard which would have made it worse.
The OOW kept his head and kept his turn going and altered far enough to clear you.

like I said I’d have let him do it. He will learn far better by f ing up and getting out of it than by me telling him it was an obvious possibility.

The lesson for you.

Never turn to words a give way vessel.

The danger. He may have interpreted the risk of collision quite differently from you and may have left it a bit late.
on sighting you a considering risk of collision possible it is very probable the give way vessel will alter course towards you with the intent of passing astern.

By altering towards the give way vessel you make the situation worse.

If concerned either reduce speed and stop or turn away.

Note again You may have concluded the bearing was changing sufficiently, the other vessel might very well have concluded the bearing was not changing sufficiently.
In which case his error was leaving his alteration a bit late.

 

[johnalison]

I think the thought that you should pass red to red was misleading in a situation where a vessel under power is the give-way vessel to a sailing boat, assuming he had seen you. My interpretation is that he assumed that you would continue your course and he would continue his turn. It is hard to know without having been there, but it sounds as if your otherwise correct wish to turn to starboard was carried out too early as I believe the requirement only applies when the risk of collision exists, and the fact that you escaped intact seems to suggest that at the outset anyway this risk did not apply, even though you may have felt apprehensive at the time.

I think that my reaction would have been to go about onto the other tack, assuming that the ship would maintain its course or continue its turn. Another possibility might be the use of a white flare, but whether this would have helped I don’t know. Of course, the obligation was chiefly on the ship, but staying safe in the company of possible rogue ships or fishing boats can be a tricky business.

 

[Refueler]

I read the first post a number of times and TBH - it is too vague on actual positions of the vessels at start and through the event. It is also vague as to the TSS and its proximity to event.

Maybe OP can draw a sketch of the event so we can see the real relative aspects ??

Not being difficult - but I do not automatically agree with many of the posts above ......... there's a good rule to observe - Not to base action on poor and scanty information - which I suggest many of the posts above are doing.

 

[finestgreen]

Another possibility might be the use of a white flare, but whether this would have helped I don’t know.

Or sound signals? (for which you'd definitely be carrying an efficient means of making because the colregs say so? )

 

[geem]

Why not use the VHF and identify yourself and position? Ask what the skippers intentions are? I have done this several times even when I have an AIS transponder.

 

[fisherman]

This is the classic 'dance of death' if it goes too far and both vessels turn the 'wrong' way and then keep trying to correct things.
In my case under power I would always turn correctly to stbd and continue until he has my stern, reducing closing speed, making him the give way vessel, and giving me time to assess his intentions, and the option to complete a 360 and end up on his port side. Not quite so simple under sail.
VHF is good sometimes, unless in response to a polite enquiry you get "F*** off asshole" ....once.

 

[CJ13]

We sail in Greece.
If in doubt about a collision we radio the ship/ ferry concerned and invariably have a sensible, seaman like response from other party.

 

[Refueler]

This is the classic 'dance of death' if it goes too far and both vessels turn the 'wrong' way and then keep trying to correct things.
In my case under power I would always turn correctly to stbd and continue until he has my stern, reducing closing speed, making him the give way vessel, and giving me time to assess his intentions, and the option to complete a 360 and end up on his port side. Not quite so simple under sail.
VHF is good sometimes, unless in response to a polite enquiry you get "F*** off asshole" ....once.

Dance of Death is true ... its why ColRegs advise against turns to PORT ..

When in doubt - I do a 180 or 360 depending on whats best and OBVIOUSLY - so other party / ship has no confusion what I am doing. I never do a small or partial change ...

VHF ..... fine - but too often has led to confusion as OOW looks for what boat is calling him .... having been OOW for many years - got the T shirt ...

 

[srm]

Was the ship in the TSS? If it was you were the give way vessel and an alteration for you is very odd, unless he read the situation as a risk of collision in which case he would have to take action.
If it was in the TSS and wanted to leave but had not seen you he should do so at a shallow angle so again an odd turn.
Another possibility is that he was altering for another ship and was unaware of your existence.
When investing in AIS go for a transponder so that others can see you electronically.

 

[Refueler]

Was the ship in the TSS? If it was you were the give way vessel and an alteration for you is very odd, unless he read the situation as a risk of collision in which case he would have to take action.
If it was in the TSS and wanted to leave but had not seen you he should do so at a shallow angle so again an odd turn.
Another possibility is that he was altering for another ship and was unaware of your existence.
When investing in AIS go for a transponder so that others can see you electronically.

At last .... someone answering without assuming too much - given that OP has not given whole 'picture'.

OP needs to give us ALL the data and info ... so we can actually make a proper assessment ... sorry to be blunt - but we do not have that yet.

 

[LittleSister]

'Suddenly, the ship starts turning to port, and very quickly our bows are facing each other. I'm quite unnerved at this point as I've never been on a bow-on-bow situation with a ship before, and not sure of the captain's intentions. I figure that colregs are out at this point and common sense must prevail'.

I disagree with your final sentence. The Col Regs were not 'out' at any point, and it was unwise, in my view, to abandon them as you did. They accommodate and provide guidance for situations where the unexpected is happening, such as when one vessel is not taking the required avoiding action (or is suspected of failing to do so). There is nothing in the Col Regs preventing you at any point from taking effective action to avoid a collision.

I suspect your knowledge of the Col Regs is (as with many of us) shaky, as in your trying to apply the red-to-red rule when it was inapplicable.

I'm glad that all turned out fine, and I applaud you for raising the situation on the forum.