SBS Boat Frustration

[john_morris_uk]

Just been to the SBS and we spent much of our time looking for a boat that would fit our needs. Nothing complicated and I've no axe to grind, but something that will sail half decently and have room for the two of us to live on some of the time, sail across some oceans and not cost a quarter million.

Where have all the boats gone?

Moody's - smallest boat is 47ft and costs about £300K. Even if we could afford it - it was just too big.

Halberg Rassey's: SWMBO wanted to know what all the fuss about Halberg Rassey's was - totally dissapointed - not only in the quality of the workmanship that we saw, but in the accomodation and the cheapest still needs a bank job to pay for it.

We can't see ourselves living in the sauna that many of the aft cabins in some of the Elan's, Dufours, would become in any sort of seriously warm weather.

And so it went on - the only boat we saw that we really really liked was the Malo - bit short of changing my career to Lottery winner we are stuffed.

Don't suggest a German mass produced boat - I have sailed some of them and what I think will get me in trouble if printed.

Its back to the 2nd hand Westerly's and Moody's I guess - although someone suggested an older Nicholson 42 might fit the bill. A search of the Web found a reasonably priced older Malo - but its in Connecticut...





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[ccscott49]

SsssssssssH.......somebody on here has bought that dufour 40!

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[kilkerr1]

Not sure what size you're after (probably a bit bigger than this one) but did you see the Midget 31 (Global Yahcts Ltd)? It's been in YM quite a bit over the past few months (boat test July '03). That's the one I've got my beedy eye on, going to see 'em on Friday. Chunky, stable Dutch double-ender, fab inside, a real ocean-goer (apparently) and I think the new ones go from £75K, I've seen second-hand ones for £55K.

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[Rich_F]

Did you check out the Najad's? They are along similar lines to Rassy and Malo, but cheaper than Malo if you don't go for all the options.

What did you find disappointing about the Rassys? It sounds like we're looking for the same kind of boat that you are, but we were impressed by an HR34 that we saw recently.

Regards,

Rich

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[AlexL]

I was seriously impressed with the Najads (400 was at the show) and one of the people on the stand took me to see their own 373 at ocean village.
I too was left a little cold by the rassys - I've heard so much about them - I thought the vinyl headlining was a bit iffy, as was the carpet - the engine / machine room was amazing though. But all the lines were at the mast and apart from the new 37 they couldn't be lead back (well they could but you'd have to do it yourself!). I dug out some YM reports of the Najads which were pretting encouraging. My moody s31 will suffice for another couple of seasons, but I shall be looking hard at Najads when its time for some longer distance adventures. (p.s if you're in the market for a 30+ footer with a non claustraphobic aft cabin take a look at the moody s31 or 336 from the 94/95 onwards generation.

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[Peppermint]

Re:Affordable Quality

Try these...

http://www.maxi.se/

http://www.zaadnoordijk.nl/


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[Peppermint]

Re: You could

try these...

http://www.maxi.se/

http://www.zaadnoordijk.nl/


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[Guest]

There are definately two camps of boats. The mass produced Bavarias, Benetaus, Jeanues... and those with only a small production run, say Northshore, Moody, Najad etc.
Examing price, a mass produced 40ft will come in at £130k, whilst a small production run boat will come in at £230k. A £100k difference. When building for the masses you can set your machines up, laser cut your panels and hey presto. For a low production boat people are going up, down, up, down, measuring, remeasuring etc and building one off cabinets etc. Now hand made does not necessarily mean better made but you are not going to spend that extra £100k on that boat unless it's better. But is it really £100k better? Or would £10k do it?

It looks to me that Bavarias have single handely changed yachting for ever. It looks like Moodys have accepted this - only exclusive boats at the show being no longer able to compete.

I always relate boats to cars. It's easier for non-boaties to understand.
The Bavarias, Jeanueas etc are like driving Ford Fiestas. The Oysters like Bentleys, the Northshore range like Jaguars and The DUFOURs (40) like an Audi. Other people will probably have there own car equivalent. Most of us would like to own a Merc or Jag but drive a Golf or Focus.

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[AlexL]

I think that the buying public are more aware of purpose when buying cars - nobody writes articles on how a Ferrari F50 is so much better than a Mondeo on the race track bla bla bla (try getting your weekly shopping in a Ferrari though!) but for some reason there are huge discussions, magazine articles etc on how unsuitable a bavaria, ben, jen are on crossing an ocean! well they are designed for the sailing most of us do - hopping from marina to marina, maybe some longer passages. Why buy an ocean cruiser when your not ocean sailing? nobody buys an F1 car to go to the shops.

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[john_morris_uk]

I understand what you are saying and I don't have a problem with mass production. Its what comes out at the end of the production line that I have a problem with. And to follow the car analogy we have even bought hand produced cars in the past! Unfortunately children and handbuilt sports cars don't mix!

My problem is that we really do sail across oceans and boats whose decks flex up and down when you walk up them, and whose heads doors won't open when you are sailing to windward don't fill me with enthusiasm about ocean sailing. SWMBO (who I am blessed with as she enthusiastically looks forward to the day when we can ocean sail together) catagorically refuses to sail on boats that are lightly built in the wrong places.

I don't mind sailing in the equivalent of a focus - the rum punch tastes just same and the view is the same what ever your boat is. Handbuilt is not the issue - I know that it costs more and we don't all need it (or can afford it), but you can mass produce to a decent standard as well!

We would just like to buy a boat with accomodation for two, separate to the living quarters and which will not turn into a sauna. Please can it sail half decently, and not try to cram multiple berths into its overly large volume for its waterline length?



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[zefender]

Re: minority interests

You want a boat which is unusual in today's market. As such, its going to be low volume, so it will be expensive. You can buy second hand of course, but this might work out expensive over a longer period, maybe not. You could buy two production boats for the price of your ocean crosser and fly over! Are you saying that all high volume boats have heads doors that can't be opened to windward, or just the one you sailed? Quite a few of the high volume boats have 'owners versions' which are not loaded with berths. It amazes me that people turn down production boats based upon the strength of the handholds and then go on to specify, and pay for, stronger ones for a custom built jobbie. As for safety, I wonder what the safety rating of your hand-built sports car would have been - crumple zones, reliability? Not being rude, honest. Just to further the argument, I don't understand what the art of carpentry has to do with the science of seaworthiness...

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[john_morris_uk]

Re: minority interests

I get to sail quite a few boats in the course of my work and I don't think it would be correct for me to name and shame those on this forum which I was referring to. I know that the reality is the contrast between boats at shows which sell for their enormous accomodation and bright interiors (especially with all the quartz high intensity lights that the sailsmen fit for the shows!) and the reality of days at sea whether its upwind in driving rain or down the trades (and I know which sailing I prefer!!). Also most people who cruise long distances spend about three quarters of their time at anchor or in a berth, so its arguably possible to go over the top on the 'at sea' bit. Having said that, I did a delivery once where there wasn't a single decent sea birth and the few days it took were hell.

We are looking at second hand Westerly Oceanrangers and the like, Moody 38's 376's etc and will probably be fairly happy. Just a pity I couldn't have been tempted by anything new.

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[zefender]

Re: minority interests

Good point about the 'at anchor needs' where the larger cockpit and voluminous interior certainly would have the edge. Whilst not possible on a delivery (owner might get upset!) it shouldn't be too hard to have a couple of sea berths fitted to a 'light/modern' boat. But your seagoing comfort point (if that is the deal breaker issue) seems entirely valid. Incidentally, don't you think the Moody 38 has the downsides of both - heavyish but fattish too?

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[Neraida]

Re: minority interests

At the risk of being shot down in flames, have you looked at the Etap 37i? I have had a good poke around one and they seem very well built. Sail quite well too, the layout you will either love or hate, but no chance of roasting cos of the massive insulation due to the unsinkabubbleness.

Give John a shout at Kiss Marine, nice bloke!

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[vyv_cox]

No Dehlers there?

Not sure if your budget will run that far but the new Dehler 43(42?) at the Amsterdam show looked seriously good. If secondhand older ones are anywhere near as good I would be looking in that direction.

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[billmacfarlane]

Re:Affordable Quality

You won't find the Maxi's cheap. NIce boats though expensive.

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[peterb]

The Mystery 35 lived up to her name, tucked away at the back of her stand and hardly noticeable. But she looked quite nice, and ought to sail well. Worth a look.

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[john_morris_uk]

Thanks for all the comments - a few replies and thoughts.

I have found some time to go back to SBS tomorrow afternoon so will have a look at the Dufours and the Mystery (although I suspect that the latter is a touch too small).

Regarding crash tests and crumple zones on handbuilt cars (part wooden so you know which one I mean), the Motor industry were amazed at the results of the mandatory crash tests that were carried out. Very very strong and with excellent protection for the class of car that it is. No axe to grind here either - its over ten years since we last had one... I think I'll stick to our Passat Diesel Estate now...

I reiterate that I don't give a stuff about whether the interior of the boat is handbuilt by a craftsman - but I do care whether the thing is designed well and strongly built enough.

Agree with comment ref Moody 38- I think I meant to say some of the other later models. They changed the names every two years and I can't keep up!

Like so many others its will almost certainly be a second hand boat that we end up with - but not for want of looking.


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