Sailing to a schedule. RIP 4 x Danish cruisers

[penfold]

Very experienced, or 40 years of the same local conditions? Summer cruising in the Baltic isn't winter in the North Atlantic.

 

[Koeketiene]

UPDATE: Four people who died after shipwreck off the coast of Lisbon in Portugal were ‘warned’ not to set sail

 

[KeelsonGraham]

So many times after a fatal accident I don’t comment because it’s easy to be wise after the event. But this? The decision to go is completely incomprehensible. The decision to sail inshore? What on earth were they thinking? Tragic but almost inevitable. I wonder if they had any significant yachting experience at all.

 

[RupertW]

So many times after a fatal accident I don’t comment because it’s easy to be wise after the event. But this? The decision to go is completely incomprehensible. The decision to sail inshore? What on earth were they thinking? Tragic but almost inevitable. I wonder if they had any significant yachting experience at all.

The decision to sail inshore was most likely due to the orca problem remaining unsolved so trying to keep inside the 20m line. They probably had that as their planned route for months and tragically didn’t take enough account of the big swell forecasts and, from the video, local shallower patches.

 

[Sailfree]

Thanks roa312 for more info

I added a post on thread "not a night to be at sea"

Briefly the Atlantic coast of France, Spain and Portugal is different from sailing around the UK, North Sea etc.

Even small swells become big waves when approaching shores. The Portuguese Maritime Police usually "close" ports for departure in bad conditions. We have been locked in Porto for 4 days after it was closed.


I chose Nazare as our home Port initial as we bought there but kept boat berth there even though new house is nearer to Peniche as Nazare has only been closed about 3 time in last 10yrs due to bad weather. The Nazare 100' waves (big wave surfing centre) are limited to the unique underwater topography off the N beach - the S beach has "ordinary" waves and Nazare marina at the S end of the S beach has a good entrance leaving the berthing safe. As such in bad weather its recommended using Nazare as a safe Haven.


Not sure why they left Peniche with a bad forecast but I am aware of boats being damaged at their berths in Peniche with incoming waves if the wind is in the wrong direction.

Sad but like anything that goes wrong we must all try to learn from these incidents - hence posting more info on the circumstances is helpful. I try not to comment on others mistakes as there but for the grace of god go I !

I thought I was an experienced sailor but different areas teach you different skills and awareness.

 

[roa312]

Even small swells become big waves when approaching shores. The Portuguese Maritime Police usually "close" ports for departure in bad conditions. We have been locked in Porto for 4 days after it was closed.

@Sailfree Can you confirm if the red warnings issued on 2 Nov (link) also covered Marina de Peniche? Can you also describe what actions would be taken by the harbor office etc. when red warnings are issued - i.e. would they make contact to visiting guests and make sure everyone is informed, or are there markers put up at the harbor entrance to inform of the red waning?

 

[Roberto]

@Sailfree Can you confirm if the red warnings issued on 2 Nov (link) also covered Marina de Peniche? Can you also describe what actions would be taken by the harbor office etc. when red warnings are issued - i.e. would they make contact to visiting guests and make sure everyone is informed, or are there markers put up at the harbor entrance to inform of the red waning?

Hello,
I made this screenshot just after the accident, **not** just before, so there is no proof that Peniche was green when they set sail (in this chart it's green, about halfway along the western coast).
The up-to-date map can be found here:
https://www.marinha.pt/pt/servicos/informacao-maritima/Paginas/Estado-das-Barras.aspx




Local navigational warnings can be found here, both active and cancelled:
Anavnet
Choosing for example "Capitania Figueira da Foz" one can find several "Barra do porto fechada" (Port officially closed), several old and one is active right now. Choosing "Capitania de Peniche" there are none about port being declared close.
As to bad weather signals/closed port signals, I collected some info about (already!) ten years ago, at the time of another accident along the coast
(Un altro) Naufragio sulla costa portoghese
if you scroll down the page there are a few images: visual signals day/night appear to show several variations along the coast, each port seems to have its own variation.
During that accident one of the local rescuers lost his life, most Capitanias then became very severe in fining people who did not respect the signals (IIRC it's a >3000k euro fine); 10 years have elapsed I do not know what is their present approach.

 

[Bouba]

UPDATE: Four people who died after shipwreck off the coast of Lisbon in Portugal were ‘warned’ not to set sail

That report is horrific....they were warned, they weren’t wearing life jackets and possibly they were not in good health....as well as whatever navigation errors they made

 

[LittleSister]

The screenshot below is a weather forecast posted by a friend of the skipper. This indicates wind speeds between 14-20 km/h (~7-13 knots), which seems totally off to me but maybe this is from Monday 30 Oct, and the weather just deteriorated a lot over that week (It would be interesting to see if anyone else has access to recordings of weather forecasts).
View attachment 167231

No. That's labelled past weather - i..e retrospective - not a forecast. Doesn't explain the difference from what they seem to have experienced though.

 

[Sailfree]

@Sailfree Can you confirm if the red warnings issued on 2 Nov (link) also covered Marina de Peniche? Can you also describe what actions would be taken by the harbor office etc. when red warnings are issued - i.e. would they make contact to visiting guests and make sure everyone is informed, or are there markers put up at the harbor entrance to inform of the red waning?

Sorry we have been on a 36 day cruise on a P & O big boat and currently in UK and flying back to Portugal on Sunday.


Even though sailing along the Portuguese coast I am completely ignorant of any signs that a Port is closed as I check daily at the Port Office to check weather forecast and normally talk to someone if only to pay for my berthing. On arrival I would radio ahead to ensure a berth and hence get a warning of any approach hazards/conditions.


When stuck in Porto we were speaking to the Port Office and arranging departure date - also making sure they knew we were still there the next day to receive our morning rolls that were thrown in the cockpit as a freebie!


I did get an e mail from Nazare marina before the strong winds to check my shore lines but the marina staff at Nazare do that if the owners don't.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Is this the incident? Difficult to tell the boat type and I think the dark items on deck are fenders, not windows.

Not a night to be at sea