Sailing Dinghy

[7htas]

Hello,

Firstly, I'll be going off on a small tangent; apologies...


I've been wanting my own yacht for several years, and I came to the conclusion that for this lifestyle, I'd need finance, practical knowledge, and time off.

Here I am nearly eight years down the line (after initially deciding, 'that's it, I want to get a yacht and live on it' ) I've became increasingly frustrated. I've spent the last four years of my life completing a Merchant Navy cadetship, and last month received my Officer of the watch unlimited ticket. When I began the training we were fed a pile of lies, that there was a "demand for British officers" - for the last couple of months, I have applied for 50 or more companies, both for direct 3rd mate jobs, and speculative applications inclusive- being mostly ignored by a majority of the companies. I've been trying everything I can think of, to no success. Thankfully, I have managed to secure a temporary deck hand position on my local ferry, which I am loving, but, it's not fit for my plans.


Anyway- the point of this thread- With the 'film star wages' and 'lots of time off' I had initially been expecting seemingly not happening any time soon- I decided that I wanted to get on the water, and having seen a Tinker Traveller locally advertised on Ebay- I went and purchased it.


I live on the Wirral, and there's a number of 'marine lakes' - which I will contact about using. I'm not really wanting to be joining any clubs, or paying any membership fees or anything like that. I've purchased it with using it in the sea in mind.

I've been chatting to a few of the captains on the Ferry, and they see no reason why with my experience, and knowledge, why I can't use my tinker on the Mersey/Dee (as long as I don't piss them and other commercial traffic off by coming inside the channel- let's leave a rule 9 debate for now)


What I'd like advice on, is launching at retrieving.

Would it be practical for me to go down to a beach (new brighton) - at say 3 hours past low water, and then sail with the incoming tide, and turn around on the ebb?
Or would it be easier to head up the river on the Ebb, head out with the tide, and then come back in when it starts to flood? I see Kayakers doing something similar to this on the Dee.

Would it be practical to do this alone? I work on the Mersey most days, and I am quite familiar with the tidal conditions, but I'm perhaps over estimating my Tinker Traveller and oars, and it's ability in a fast flowing tide.

Obviously I'll have a life jacket (s) - and a marine radio- and I plan on using my phone for navigational purposes- can anyone recommend an App?


Look forward to hearing people's thoughts


Cheers

 

[ShinyShoe]

Looking forward to the pics of your live aboard Tinker T!

OK So I come from your kind of sailing - unlike many on here who own 40ft Yachts with luxury facilities and have to bates if they use the aft shower or forward shower in the morning ;-)

You don't describe what sailing ability you have. You say you have your OOW tickets which is great it means you understand lots of the theory of the rules etc but presumably it doesn't cover too much of how to get a Tinker T to sail? Have you capsized a dinghy before? While I think your ambitions are great - unless you have a wealth of sailing experience (in which case I'm not sure you'd be asking the questions) I'd have thought you'd be better starting somewhere controlled and the Marine Lakes over your way are ideal for that. Gives you the opportunity to make sure you can really sail a triangular course. Make sure you can self recover a capsize including an inversion. If not you need a plan on how to reduce the risk. You need to be able to reef and 'un-reef' on the water.

OK Thats you. Now for the boat. You also need to challenge it in a controlled environment. Sail it in windier weather than you'd plan your adventure. Make sure nothing breaks. In my experience with wooden boats lots of things break. So you also need a plan for when bit of kit A breaks what will you do. You should be able to get to safety with any single kit failure on your boat except perhaps the mast!

You'll want to row it and see how it is. But rowing in a Marine Lake is probably nothing like rowing on the Mersey.

I understand not wanting to join a club. Its often the cheapest way but it also usually carries a commitment to helping run the club. I don't know the clubs over your way but round here there are a couple of places with "Pay to Play" options where you pay a day fee to sail. I think it would be worth it for testing purposes to work out what you need to know.

Navigation. I actually don't think a phone should be your primary means of nav. They are prone to crashing at the wrong time. Yes I'd have one. But your primary means should be a laminated colour copy of the relevant chart on the bit you are sailing. I know dinghy cruisers who use OS based mapping (£) on their phone and others using Navionics (££). Personally in the places you are describing I'd ideally want to try and pull some AIS data from the internet onto that chart - while you aren't planning to be in the channel at some point you are bound to be in some degree of promixity to a big boat and knowing its coming down the channel round a bend that you can't see means you can plan to be ready for wakes etc. (I've been in the unfortunate situation of breaking a rudder blad half way across a channel with a tanker round a bend that I couldn't see headed towards me). There is an app called SeaPilot that appears to show AIS targets on it - not sure if thats from WiFi AIS onboard of AIS from "the net". If you want free then OpenCPN is now in beta on android (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.opencpn.opencpn_free&hl=en_GB) but you need to find a map source and its a beta. Not aware of them doing AIS from the Net but they may have done. Its been a LONG time since I used OpenCPN (Windows 95 I think!)

Worth looking at the RYA's tracking app to.

Now as for the passage plans - you know the water better than me. BUT - you need escape plans along the way. What if something breaks and you need to abort. Where can you safely get the boat to to get off? Can you get the boat out there? Some of those might be "catastrophic emergencies only" and some might be more normal exit plans. For a boat of that size I'd want an escape point every 2NM maximum as thats means the maximum you would need to row to any escape point would be 1NM - but bear in mind that might be 1NM against the current...

My old sailing instructor when asked "Do we need to reef today?" had a standard answer "If you need to ask, you already know the answer" - I think the same applies here. If the question is for advice on places to visit along the river thats fine, but when you are asking the abilities of your boat and your own skills - who is best to determine that?

 

[NealB]

I had a Tinker Traveller, as a tender, for about twenty years.

They are a great concept.

With the big side tanks, they are very confidence inspiring in conditions where other inflatables I've owned, feel rather vulnerable. I don't know of an inflatable that rows better (and, of course, they have proper oars). They perform really well with a 2hp 2 stroke on the transom.

Yes, they even sail.

But do not get carried away, here. They are very slow, and you will not make ground to windward against a strong tide.

I used mine for pottering around, exploring sheltered creeks and swatchways when the conditions were nice. They sail about as well as you think they would from their tubby looks ie they're not fast or exciting (even compared to something like a Mirror).

The good news is that I can't imagine ever capsizing a Tinker. The downside is that she might struggle, if you need to get home for the evening.

Some people say that the Tinker won't tack: I must say that I never had problems there. The trick is to get your weight forward to get her big bum out the water.

Conclusion: great tenders, but, as ShineyShoe suggests, make sure your passage plans have lots of options for cutting the trip short.

She wouldn't really be my choice making longish, coastal trips.

 

[EdWingfield]

Sorry you were lied to. Maybe you should have seen it's about economics. Brit crews were replaced about 10 yrs ago, and now Brit officers are replaced as cheaper people come along.

Try RFA and Trinity House + local towage companies. Good luck.

As for dinghy in Mersey, try the sailing clubs for advice.

 

[Alfie168]

You must talk to a local club. Having crewed a three masted Bark up the Mersey on a turning tide....and we had a couple of engines when we needed them....it was not a piece of cake. I suspect a tinker traveller is unsuitable simply as it is not capable enough as a sailing vessel. The local sailing clubs will know exactly what you can get away with on the Mersey, and what you cant. They may also have guard/rescue vessels that can round up becalmed sailing vessels if they get caught out on the tide whilst racing.

My Grandad was an engineering officer in the White Star Line.....after the iceberg incident I hasten to add.

Tim

 

[prv]

Brit crews were replaced about 10 yrs ago

I'm surprised it was that recent. I thought it had been Filipinos for decades now.

Most of the OOW voices I hear on the radio are either Indian or Russian/Ukrainian.

Pete

 

[7htas]

Thanks for the replies.


I took the boat on my local marine lake, with limited success. I am quite new to sailing, and I must say, the idea of taking her onto the sea now, seems a bit silly!


I went down to Tallington Lakes, where a pal gave me some one on one tuition, so I'm going to keep practising on the local lake.


I bought this tinker off ebay- and the seller assured me it was leak free- turns out one of the innertubes does not stay inflated for more than an hour, and I've had a quote of 60 quid per valve (to replace them properly)- the other valves seem fine.

I've contacted the seller asking why he's sold me this with a leak.

Have I got any grounds to leave him poor feedback, or anything like that? On the basis of him selling me a leaking boat?

 

[ShinyShoe]

If his listing said the tubes are holding air and they don't then yes. But what do you want him to do? Give you your money back?

I suspect none of us are surprised that you suddenly discovered it might take a bit of practice. You'll get there.

Am I right in thinking the dinghy you have is basically an inflatable dinghy rather than a wooden pram with buoyancy bags? Do you know for sure the leak is a valve?

 

[7htas]

It's basically like a rib, with wooden slats, with a centre board, and obviously a sailing rig...

I'm just a little cheesed off that I've paid 600 quid of my hard earned for something that isn't really what he said. Yeah, I got the old fairy liquid out today in a spray bottle, and identified one of the inner-innertubes valve as the leaker! - Was told this can be cut out, and replaced with a new valve for about 45 quid plus VAT - so I'll just take it on the chin- and not buy anything from ebay like this EVER again! (I'm sure I will though) - I have a decent little pump that I can take in the boat and keep it topped up.

Like you said- the controlled environment was the safe option- I took it out- and was sailing it fine at first, until my rudder jammed (I wasn't aware it had came up horizontal) so the boat was un sail-a-ble- and I ended up drifting to the other side of the lake - I needed to walk to collect my car! - Thankfully after a little trip to Tallington Lakes, and some one on one tuition, I'm now able to sail pretty well, and understand how to use the Jib, and to tack and gybe properly- so I'm going to practice getting a feel for it before I take her into the sea.


I've been offered a 2hp British Seagull engine for buttons! My mate wants a tenner for it. After reading up on them, they seem ideal for the tinker, and my aspirations of using her in the sea. This outboard has not been started in 20 years, but it was working fine last time it was used.....

The engineers where I work are keen to get hold of it, and overhaul it for me, they reckon it should work fine- as they are very good engines!

Anyone know if a 2hp long shaft would be okay for a tinker? It says it can handle up to 5hp on the hull...

 

[ShinyShoe]

It's basically like a rib, with wooden slats, with a centre board, and obviously a sailing rig...

I'm just a little cheesed off that I've paid 600 quid of my hard earned for something that isn't really what he said. Yeah, I got the old fairy liquid out today in a spray bottle, and identified one of the inner-innertubes valve as the leaker! - Was told this can be cut out, and replaced with a new valve for about 45 quid plus VAT - so I'll just take it on the chin- and not buy anything from ebay like this EVER again! (I'm sure I will though) - I have a decent little pump that I can take in the boat and keep it topped up.

Ouch! Welcome to the world of boat ownership.

Like you said- the controlled environment was the safe option- I took it out- and was sailing it fine at first, until my rudder jammed (I wasn't aware it had came up horizontal) so the boat was un sail-a-ble- and I ended up drifting to the other side of the lake - I needed to walk to collect my car! - Thankfully after a little trip to Tallington Lakes, and some one on one tuition, I'm now able to sail pretty well, and understand how to use the Jib, and to tack and gybe properly- so I'm going to practice getting a feel for it before I take her into the sea.

So what you really want to do is take very piece of kit on board and practice sailing without it! So can you sail with no jib - understand the limitations (sailing close to the wind is often harder), no centre board, you'll not get to windward at all unless you can jury rig something, no rudder - steer with weight etc. I guarantee at some point you will break things. Do you have a handheld VHF? It would be on my list before sailing in the sea and certainly before sailing near commercial shipping so you know whats coming your way!

I've been offered a 2hp British Seagull engine for buttons! My mate wants a tenner for it.

Buy it!

After reading up on them, they seem ideal for the tinker, and my aspirations of using her in the sea. This outboard has not been started in 20 years, but it was working fine last time it was used.....

I bought mine for about £80, untested with a similar story. As predicted the fuel tap leaked (its got a cork seal that dries out. Service instructions on saving seaguls website. cleaned points, started second pull! Since then its had new plug, new plug lead (i broke it changing the plug!) and currently has a new tilt clip waiting to fit. Mine's running on 10:1 -- love the smell!

Anyone know if a 2hp long shaft would be okay for a tinker? It says it can handle up to 5hp on the hull...

Weight and power wise will be fine. Shaft length may be an issue. I'd have guessed it would want a short.
Is the mainsheet transom mounted? If sailing and carrying the engine as a reserve plan I suspect the two will get in the way.

 

[EdWingfield]

Think before you buy that 'bargain' engine. Long shaft no good for you.

And it is an environmental disaster zone. fuel/oil drips, smoke and noise level.

Do you really need an engine on the lake?

 

[7htas]

I want the engine as back up for when I'm using it in the sea. and even then, I'm only going to consider taking it out if the conditions are perfect. I have a Marine VHF as well.

If the long shaft is not the right type, the engineer in work told me he could fix it up, and there'd be someone in his sailing club who would snap it up, maybe to do a swap with me, for something that would suit my tinker.

He only wants £20 for it, and the engineer in work said he'd fix it for free for me.

 

[ShinyShoe]

Think before you buy that 'bargain' engine. Long shaft no good for you.

While for many things I'd normally agree - I really don't see how you can loose on a £20 seagul. Even as a non-runner it would sell for more than £20 on fleabay.

And it is an environmental disaster zone. fuel/oil drips, smoke and noise level.

Oh yeh thats for sure! It will be hard to miss you coming, and yes their will be a small oil slick behind you. Even without using it you may will still leave a mark of oil from the gearbox dripping. (Its designed to leak!). There are things you can do to help - a 25:1 conversion is possible on many units for relatively little money. You can get biodegradable 2stroke oil. You are only planning to use it if you need to.

There is a counter argument that not sending that lump of metal to the scrap yard saves waste (the engine in its self is carbon neutral)...

I want the engine as back up for when I'm using it in the sea. and even then, I'm only going to consider taking it out if the conditions are perfect. I have a Marine VHF as well.

If the long shaft is not the right type, the engineer in work told me he could fix it up, and there'd be someone in his sailing club who would snap it up, maybe to do a swap with me, for something that would suit my tinker.

He only wants £20 for it, and the engineer in work said he'd fix it for free for me.

It is also possible to shorten with a hacksaw! Never done it but plenty of people have.

 

[Pete7]

- turns out one of the innertubes does not stay inflated for more than an hour, and I've had a quote of 60 quid per valve (to replace them properly)- the other valves seem fine.

Why not fix the valve yourself? You tube and this site will do for starters:

http://www.polymarine.com/advice/fitting-valves/

 

[thesaintlyone]

Originally in your thread you said you wanted to get some boat to live on so here is my advice to you.

Start visiting and getting to know your local boatyards and go and have a look at boats for sale even the ones you cant possibly afford particularly in said boatyards. This will accomplish two things.

1) You will begin to get a better idea of the kind of boat you need for living on

2) In these boat yards are boats that will not be found advertised for sale anywhere but have not recieved a visit from their owner in some years and will be in various states of repair and likely that an offer to the owner will see you in possession of a bargain.

Plus google, youtube like mad find out all there is to know about projects on boats, what to look for etc.

My own story much like yours but it wasn't till I had dreamed of owning a sail boat to live on for many years that I finally put the above plan into action.

I found my little westerly Jouster sitting in a yard untouched she owed the yard about £1500 and I struck a deal to pay it off over a few months whilst I covered the yard fees and started the work. she will be launched friday and up for sale (Plan to sail her whilst she is on the market) the funds from the sale will go towards one of the bigger boats that have come to the yard to die of which there are at least 4 over 30ft that have not seen an owner in some years. In talks to hopefully secure a lovely forlorn looking westerly 31 and would of been well out of my saving beforehand whilst I learnt so much about the internal workings (dire credit rating).

Best of luck