Sailing allowed in lockdown

[Lucky Duck]

Just spent half an hour trying to work out which regulations are being amended and I can't make any sense of it. Also can't find the section on travel restrictions that was explicit in the original regulations last March. Amendments don't have any links to the documents they are amending. God help anybody who is trying to enforce any of this.

I started a thread in the current affairs section noting the absence of the Statutory Instrument (as of Tuesday morning) and then when it was then published that there wasn't a consolidated version.

As far as I am aware there never has been and still is not any restriction on travel in any of the regulations in England. That is not the case in Scotland and Wales.

As a final point, the list of reasonable excuses in the regulations is not exhaustive.

 

[pvb]

God help anybody who is trying to enforce any of this.

The police will just make up their own rules.

 

[Adios]

Dartmouth Harbours interpretation of the rules

LNTM 02-21 COVID-19 Compliance - Dart Harbour

• You should exercise in your local area only. We therefore do not consider it appropriate for people to travel to exercise on or around the River Dart,
• We do not consider Recreational or Leisure boating to be a form of exercise as defined in the rules therefore we do not expect any yachts, powerboats, or sailing dinghies etc to be operating on the river at any time during the lockdown

"We do not consider it appropriate" Point one was discussed in this thread and anyone living in the rough area has explicit permission to travel to exercise on beaches and countryside. Do they think they own the foreshore as well? Are they going to show the legal permission they have to annex the entire estuary of a river from the countryside?

Point 2 is hilarious really. "We do not consider recreational or leisure boating to be a form of exercise". Well no. But exercise boating is and anyone can say they were doing exercise, any movement of the body is gentle exercise and for some a slow row over to a mooring is a good workout. Hoisting sails, winching in the fresh air and sunshine. Perfect safe exercise.

"We do not expect to see". Nice bit of passive aggressive there well done chaps. So they have gone further than the law before it was even signed into law. Like an extra branch of law enforcement we'll have to answer too even when we are not breaking the actual law. Are they going to have punitive measures like some sort of archaic feudal landlord? Floggings? Stocks? Cancelled mooring contracts? Cast adrift? Hung in irons at the entrance to the harbour as a warning to other pirates hoping to exercise in the complete safety of a massive expanse of tidal water.

Edit: Todays notice removes the above bits and discourages without forbidding. LNTM 03-21 COVID-19 Compliance - Dart Harbour ???

 

[Capt Popeye]

My personal take on whether its productive or counter productive to the spread of the VIRUS is whether there is PERSONAL CONTACT or not which I guess is where the VIRUS is spreading, vis Person to Person

So ALL Clubs, etc should close to organised or generalise activity as its surely a function of a CLUB to engage with OTHERS

But the Club Boat Storage areas are NOT such places, are they ?

They are storage places in which a boat can be stored but available for necessary maintainces and ensuring safety of boats in order to maintain boats in a Good Order and therefore SAFE

Those that mix up the terms excersise with activity are generaly 'muddying the waters' somewhat, vis
Excersise is surely an activity that had no real purpose other that to engage in Excersise for ones body to remain as fit as it was before one excersised = so no real benefits
Activity is the engagement of one into a pursuit that brings about enjoyment to the participant for which they benefit from Mental, Bodily, Spiritual empowerment plus a general feeling of empowerment = lots of real personal benefits

So should water born activity such as Sailing, Rowing Boating in general be allowed and encouraged = surely so

 

[TernVI]

Back in the first lockdown, a motorcycling lawyer was keen to point out the distinction between exercise and recreation. Riding a motorbike is recreation, which at the time was specifically permitted. It would seem that is different this time around.
IMHO, dinghy sailing can be exercise, pottering in a 37ft boat really isn't, any more than driving to the Lake District.

The point is, HMG wants you to stay at home except for essentials and physical exercise like walking, cycling etc.
It really is that simple.

 

[Easticks28]

So ALL Clubs, etc should close to organised or generalise activity as its surely a function of a CLUB to engage with OTHERS

Are Churches 'Clubs '? Seem by that definition to be so .

Staffordshire churchgoers told to self-isolate due to positive coronavirus case

 

[Lightwave395]

Well I suppose on the plus side, keeping my boat in France where it is completely impossible to get to avoids all the wailing and knashing of teeth going on here

 

[Adjag]

Just spent half an hour trying to work out which regulations are being amended and I can't make any sense of it. Also can't find the section on travel restrictions that was explicit in the original regulations last March. Amendments don't have any links to the documents they are amending. God help anybody who is trying to enforce any of this.

Agree it's hard to digest. Spent some time (sad isn't it!) this morning and it turns out the instruments do get consolidated after a while, so here The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020 is the law updated to 30Dec (when Tier4 areas were extended just before New Year)

 

[Adios]

IMHO, dinghy sailing can be exercise, pottering in a 37ft boat really isn't, any more than driving to the Lake District.

The point is, HMG wants you to stay at home except for essentials and physical exercise like walking, cycling etc.
It really is that simple.

Maybe they think us prisoners should only be allowed out of our cells for a hour walking laps of the prison yard and finding a way to make it enjoyable should be punished. But thats not how the law is written. Otherwise why allow visits to beaches and forests? Why not say we must not leave our street where we can walk the pavements in circles, or max 1/4 mile from our house.

Don't you feel physically refreshed and more healthy after a day of even pottering sailing? Every part of it involves moving the body, fresh air and sunshine which are great for health and immune system. Lets not defend the indefensible who are making up their own laws or make it worse than it has to be ourselves

 

[DJE]

The point is, HMG wants you to stay at home except for essentials and physical exercise like walking, cycling etc.
It really is that simple.

I agree but I would expect them to be able to put this simple requirement into clear legislation in plain English. Then they wouldn't need masses of guidance and interpretation which often conflicts with the underlying legislation.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Are Churches 'Clubs '? Seem by that definition to be so .

Staffordshire churchgoers told to self-isolate due to positive coronavirus case

Well personally I would say yes, what better a place for that Virus to spread than in a Church , all the congregation of varying ages and sex's standing shoulder to shoulder singing away spouting poss contagious air from their lungs with spital all very very contagious surely ? then forming orderly que's to leave the Church Building filing past the Priest /Vicar / Bishop (??) what a better way of spreading a Virus could not be dreampt up, surely ?

Not to mention the sharing of Hyme Books and Bibles etc, often reading from the same book !

Dont lets get into the Sacrements !

 

[Lucky Duck]

I agree but I would expect them to be able to put this simple requirement into clear legislation in plain English. Then they wouldn't need masses of guidance and interpretation which often conflicts with the underlying legislation.

If you can't go sailing and want to get out of the house you can always visit a developer's show home...

(As has been pointed out there will be instances where finding accommodation and the like is a necessity rather than the recreational activity house hunting is for many)

 

[Capt Popeye]

Back in the first lockdown, a motorcycling lawyer was keen to point out the distinction between exercise and recreation. Riding a motorbike is recreation, which at the time was specifically permitted. It would seem that is different this time around.
IMHO, dinghy sailing can be exercise, pottering in a 37ft boat really isn't, any more than driving to the Lake District.

The point is, HMG wants you to stay at home except for essentials and physical exercise like walking, cycling etc.
It really is that simple.

Yes well just might state so BUT who is more likely to get into troubles and request help from the Safety Services, vis Life Guards, RNLI, Police, Coastguard etc the Dingy sailor or the 37ft Motorboat ?

as I read my local Harbour Marine Authority its not desireable to engage in Water Sports or Recreation in main because we (they) might require assisatnce fro the Emergency and Safety organisations and in doing so put them who respond into danger from the Virus.

Might state that in this pandemic its far better surely to engage in Mental well being that relying on physical well being if one wants or has to fight the Virus off ?

 

[Capt Popeye]

[QUOTE="TernVI, post:

The point is, HMG wants you to stay at home except for essentials and physical exercise like walking, cycling etc.
It really is that simple.
[/QUOTE]

Yea just a really great idea, eh ?

What a better way to spread the Virus than posturing about outdoors, certainly out of 'one's bubble, mixing with 'other' breathing heavily, spreading one's contaminated Air mix with others all in all a very unhealthy way to live, but its recommended by Govt and Advisers so go for it, lets reduce our population the Legal Way eh ?

 

[Solent Sailor]

The RYA's current position (pending full analysis of the legislation): https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/clubs/Covid FAQs in England from 5 Jan 2021.pdf

Clearly, their view is that sailing is exercise (which I agree it can be).

No mention of checking mooring lines or essential maintenance - however, my view is that ensuring the safety of several hundreds of thousand's of pounds worth of boat, is essential and proportionate. Quite frankly, if she were to be written off because a mooring line failed and the insurers declined to pay (perhaps because I hadn't checked her recently enough) then I doubt my finances would ever recover. I do live close to the boat though, which I concede makes something of a difference compared to someone travelling 200 miles to do the same because of the added risks of being away from home and on the roads for so long. This appears to be supported by my local Harbourmaster (Hamble, as per the post above).

In the first lockdown I visited my boat after many weeks and found a reverse polarity light on. Several engineers had been on the boat during that time and failed to spot anything amiss. I immediately found a problem with a short on the shorepower inlet which could have resulted in a fire, taking down not only my boat but several around me. Worth the visit for that alone.

All those commenting that you should have checked your ropes by now need to give your heads a bit of a wobble (or perhaps you've never owned a boat?). Mooring lines stretch and will fail over time. People undo them for their own reasons and fail to secure them properly again. Checking them regularly is essential, and I have never found a marina that I trust to leave this to (although at the moment, my boat is not even in a marina, which makes the risk all the higher).

 

[colhel]

Im not going to try and circumnavigate the rules until it warms up a bit. Then I might consider it ?

 

[lustyd]

While debating what parliament wants you to do, how about looking at what they are doing themselves. No masks, no distancing, travelling to work for non-essential reasons in the most dangerous part of the country...one even seems to be wiping his nose on his hand!



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[steveeasy]

LNTM 02-21 COVID-19 Compliance - Dart Harbour

• You should exercise in your local area only. We therefore do not consider it appropriate for people to travel to exercise on or around the River Dart,
• We do not consider Recreational or Leisure boating to be a form of exercise as defined in the rules therefore we do not expect any yachts, powerboats, or sailing dinghies etc to be operating on the river at any time during the lockdown

"We do not consider it appropriate" Point one was discussed in this thread and anyone living in the rough area has explicit permission to travel to exercise on beaches and countryside. Do they think they own the f-ing foreshore as well? Are they going to show the legal permission they have to annex the entire estuary of a river from the countryside?

Point 2 is hilarious really. "We do not consider recreational or leisure boating to be a form of exercise". Well no. But exercise boating is and anyone can say they were doing exercise, any movement of the body is gentle exercise and for some a slow row over to a mooring is a good workout. Hoisting sails, winching in the fresh air and sunshine. Perfect safe exercise.

"We do not expect to see". Nice bit of passive aggressive there well done chaps. So they have gone further than the law before it was even signed into law. Like an extra branch of law enforcement we'll have to answer too even when we are not breaking the actual law. Are they going to have punitive measures like some soft of archaic feudal landlord? Floggings? Stocks? Cancelled mooring contracts? Cast adrift? Hung in irons at the entrance to the harbour as a warning to other pirates hoping to exercise in the complete safety of a massive expanse of tidal water.

Seams the first sentence is based on asumptions only, not what is actually permitted. moving on what is permitted ?
Now are marinas and boatyards open or shut ?. Id assume marinas have been told to close, but a boatyard can remain open but is this clear. Quite astonishingly I recieved this below this morning from my marina. What a poorly written letter setting out why they are open but closed.


The yard will remain open, but it should be noted that members of the public should not be travelling to move vessels to repair yards or attend builds in progress. As such, the yard is closed to visitors with immediate effect.

If you have to restrict access to your customers who have paid for access ,you would think it would go along the lines of we have been told to close, not members of the public should not be doing random things, therefore we are shut.

what hope is there.

Steveeasy

 

[Adios]

Quite astonishingly I recieved this below this morning from my marina. What a poorly written letter setting out why they are open but closed.

The yard will remain open, but it should be noted that members of the public should not be travelling to move vessels to repair yards or attend builds in progress. As such, the yard is closed to visitors with immediate effect.

Did they refer to their customers as "members of the public" to distance themselves from the fact you're paying customers? Normally you'd think members of the public, like a sign on the gate saying "no public right of way" does not include paying customers with a right to be there. Likewise "visitors" sounds like guests of the paying customers. Plain speaking has died a death lately. "We're closed to customers but as you can't come in to move your boat you have to keep paying" would have done it.

 

[steveeasy]

Did they refer to their customers as "members of the public" to distance themselves from the fact you're paying customers? Normally you'd think members of the public, like a sign on the gate saying "no public right of way" does not include paying customers with a right to be there. Likewise "visitors" sounds like guests of the paying customers. Plain speaking has died a death lately. "We're closed to customers but as you can't come in to move your boat you have to keep paying" would have done it.

I just copied the text. apart from a statement saying in relation to the most recent lockdown measures, that was the full extent of the statement. I bet they spent no more than a nano second putting that letter together with no thought at all.

Steveeasy