RYA Together on water

[ylop]

The RYA looks old-fashioned because it's not doing its job; changing the logo is corporate bullshine.

Which bits of “it’s Job” is it not doing?

Problem is it does not know what its job is. It has diversified to widely, everything from dinghy racing to yachting (there might be a hint in the title there about what it should be doing) via narrowboats and all small low flying aircraft called foils.

Interesting - I find it difficult to rationalise dinghy racing and yacht racing being in different organisations. But most yacht owners don’t race, so it makes sense that the RYA should be catering to their cruising interests too. Since most yachts have a motor, and most dinghy clubs have rescue boats it’s clear that there should be some provision for motorboating too. The theory is the same and even the practical syllabus for the training is not that different. Windsurf I can see could be a different organisation but they are just dinghies with unsupported masts and no rudder, often used at the same institutions (in reality the overlap probably has more to do with the IOC dealing with one global governing body). If dinghies are in foiling dinghies and foiling yachts have to be. Then foiling kite surfs probably should be too. In essence if it floats and isn’t powered directly by human beings it seems to be in scope - I’ve no issue with that but the word yachting is not logical to a kite surfer, and rib owner, etc. And even to this white middle class, middle aged bloke, it has connotations of sailing clubs with blazers - especially when you add royal in front of it. You don’t need to be a staunch republican to wonder what benefit royal brings to an organisation name one 2023 and ask if any such benefits outweigh the downsides of appearing to be an elitist grandiose movement?

Given that this hasn’t been anything I recall being consulted or asked to vote on I’m not sure how you come to that conclusion.

The members elect the directors (well actually they elect about half the directors who then appoint the other half to fill skill gaps). It’s not realistic to ask the membership for permission to make every operational decision - that is the task entrusted to the board (and delegated by them to the staff). The strategy was clearly referred to in the Chair and CEOs reports at the AGM. If you don’t like the way the directors run it - elect different directors, or stand yourself. But those who attend the AGM seem to largely support the governance currently in place with only 3% voting against recent changes to governance!

 

[laika]

The strategy was clearly referred to in the Chair and CEOs reports at the AGM. If you don’t like the way the directors run it - elect different directors

There is nothing in the agenda of the meeting or on the ballot form pertaining to hiring a consultancy to rebrand the logo. Potential directors don’t publish manifestos so who knows which of that upper middle class clique are planning what. The diversity and inclusion strategy was mentioned, but even when you retrospectively dig into it, there’s nothing about rebranding. Even when you go and read that document, the section on “imagery” is nothing to do with the logo it’s about visual diversity of people in pictures in their publications.

So I’m still struggling to see why you think I can’t question the spend on rebranding because it’s my own fault

 

[capnsensible]

I reckon you would get a more realistic answer from the RYA management team than a bunch of opinionated people on an Internet forum.

In my opinion.

 

[ylop]

Correct there wasn’t - did you go to the AGM? Did you ask questions? I agree the change of logo wasn’t explicitly discussed - but the strategy that drove it, the finances etc were.

Did you elect the directors? Either you voted for them and trusted them to run the organisation or like most of us you ignored the ballot process and left it to others. I agree that the descriptions used to appoint directors/trustees in organisations like this doesn’t really tell you what they stand for (often the organisation is just glad to have had a nomination) but if you don’t stand yourself, don’t trust those elected and don’t ask questions when given the opportunity, and then passively moan from the sidelines then I think you are part of the problem: a tired organisation full of opinionated members who have no interest in actually improving. I’ve been a trustee of organisations of this scale and am currently helping a much smaller sport governing body move from the 1990’s to 2020’s! The issue is rarely the leadership - it’s the recalcitrant membership who will bemoan the leaders and get outraged at any expenditure that is not for their immediate benefit but who will do nothing to actually roll up their sleeves and get involved.

The other issue of course, for all sport governing bodies, is how government sport funding is allocated - it follows medals (and particularly Olympic medals). The post above about parents expecting minibuses is common across many sports. It’s probably a more environmentally friendly way of getting 15 kids to a club than a dozen cars going. It’s certainly more inclusive, and builds better “team camaraderie” but funding makes it hard to get such resources, regulations and local rules make it hard to drive a minibus (rightly or wrongly). It’s short cited because active kids are more likely to be active adults and that makes for a physically and mentally better society. Most people will never be an Olympic medalist or even on an elite training pathway.

 

[laika]

Correct there wasn’t - did you go to the AGM? Did you ask questions? I agree the change of logo wasn’t explicitly discussed - but the strategy that drove it, the finances etc were.

No I didn't go because without inherited wealth I am sadly forced to work for a living and it was held on a weekday. And oddly, I might not have thought to ask "just on the off-chance, If you're going to spend a sack of money on rebranding may we first see the study which demonstrates expected return on investment?". And no I have no way of knowing ahead of time what's in the heads of a bunch of people I don't know on the ballot paper each year and I never meet them because I'm not invited to the parties at Ensign house.

This whole line of discussion is absurd: I simply added to this discussion by saying that while I like the new logo I wonder what the return on investment will be and whether that had been assessed. You're entitled to believe that paying members shouldn't question in discussions the decisions of "leaders" that they should have got to know prior to their being elected.

 

[penfold]

Where were the RYA vis a vis these preposterous 'eco' moorings and the threat of being banned from many popular anchorages because of the alleged and poorly understood effect of anchors on a seaweed which does not appear in need of protection? When asked to assist there was tumbleweed.

Which bits of “it’s Job” is it not doing?

 

[capnsensible]

anchoring-and-mooring

 

[penfold]

That's just supine. They're our lobby group, they're supposed to lobby for us.

 

[Boathook]

Where were the RYA vis a vis these preposterous 'eco' moorings and the threat of being banned from many popular anchorages because of the alleged and poorly understood effect of anchors on a seaweed which does not appear in need of protection? When asked to assist there was tumbleweed.

I emailed them about this a few years ago and got a reply from the environment person that implied (the way I read it), they had rolled over to have their stomachs scratched / tickled by mmo.
More and more I'm wondering why I'm still a member, but we do seem to still have at present the least regulated 'boating' in Europe and possibly the world.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

The RYA has campaigned a lot to protect sailing from activities that would impact the pastime negatively. See their web site. They can’t be everything to everyone or win every challenge. There are always pressures to regulate and if it wasn’t the RYA it would be another agency.

Personally, they support racing to an exceptional degree compared to cruising. I would like to see more support for cruising at the expense of racing.

The logo change to me is irrelevant but I do think it was a pointless exercise, but it is done now.

They are struggling to encourage more participation and need ideas in that space. The negativity towards the RYA has been around for ever.

 

[penfold]

They were told by members(you know, the people who pay the bills?) that the data used by NE and MMO were faulty and shown proof of this, yet they rolled over and played dead. Useless and supine.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

They were told by members(you know, the people who pay the bills?) that the data used by NE and MMO were faulty and shown proof of this, yet they rolled over and played dead. Useless and supine.

I am surprised that you use a single example to write off the whole organisation.

 

[penfold]

Oh, what an impressive strawman you have!

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Oh, what an impressive strawman you have!

It is not a strawman. Your argument that the RYA is supine and useless is based on one example you give. The organisation has done quite a lot of work to ensure sailing members interest are met. I don't actually disagree with your point on the seagrass roll over. However, the RYA still has a track record of supporting sailors needs and wants, both membership and non members. Yet, all you bring to the table is one example that you imply makes the organisation "supine". I disagree.

 

[penfold]

In this thread alone I've commented on three recent activities of the RYA, yet you contend I'm laser focused on only one. A strawman.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

In this thread alone I've commented on three recent activities of the RYA, yet you contend I'm laser focused on only one. A strawman.

Touché! My bad for only mentioning one. However, it docent materially change my point of view of the RYA as an organisation that has, and continues to represent my interests i.e. not supine.

 

[oldgit]

The RYA looks old-fashioned because it's not doing its job; changing the logo is corporate bullshine.

A trouble maker suggested that one of the clubs on the Thames might become a little more relevant to the 21st Century if it dropped the word "Yacht" from its title, especially as it was doubtful if anything with sails had been near the club in the past 50 years.
You can imagine the fall out from the honourable members, some of who may even have been disturbed from their slumbers long enough to write letters to the committee.

 

[oldgit]

the actual policy seems to be very light on detail other than challenging ourselves to be inclusive- where are the specific things that they will change to deliver this.

I do some strategy work as my day job. The start point to this should be to locate the actual barriers to participation and tackle those. I can see no evidence they have done that and suspect that this is just a woke wash.

whilst I can understand that if you’re from an ethnic minority then walking into a royal yacht club peopled by old, upper middle class privately educated professional people may be awkward but I would expect a white young working class person from a poor inland area may also be intimidated. The issue though is that a wealthy Asian person may be able to buy a decent boat and pay to keep it. If you’re a low income person then that may be a harder barrier to overcome.

Buying even a cheap dinghy and keeping it at an inland club may be the most accessible route in but even that requires that you know someone who can take you to the club to sail it as I suspect few are on public transport routes, requires that you can afford the club / storage fees. Can buy a wetsuit and other associated gear, can pay for some basic training.

all of this at a time when young people are struggling to pay off student deb, need two full time working people to buy a house, have rubbish pension arrangements and I think it becomes pretty clear why people may not sail as much as previous generations

Does the RYA have a section devoted to PWC s ? a small fleet perhaps that could be hired out to any interested parties to encourage intelligent use and participation in the sport.
Ask merely out of interest of course .

 

[oldgit]

More and more I'm wondering why I'm still a member,

Cos of a "free" renewal of the ICC. ?
It takes longer to remove the packaging and gather up the wine offers, than to find nothing of any relevance in the contents to a large section of the boating community , before popping the entire thing into the recycling.

 

[Seven Spades]

Given that this hasn’t been anything I recall being consulted or asked to vote on I’m not sure how you come to that conclusion.

Yachting has a diversity issue and I’ve no issues with making it more inclusive but I’d want to see some research-backed justification as to why the spend on a new logo will yield a tangible benefit.

There is no issue. People do the things that interest them. There is nothing to stop anyone of any kind from taking part. Try going to the beach, you will see that going to the beach is not very diverse, it is not a problem people just make choices.