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B27

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ISTR the CA is affiliated to the RYA?

As a member of two affiliated clubs and a class association, I'm happy with my level of support and membership for the RYA.
 

srm

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Without regulation it would be anarchy, possibly unsafe for competitors and a free for all.
Suggest that you look up the "Jester Sailing Challenge".

No sign of anarchy and no rules since they started a number of years ago. Just let them know you are interested in taking part and turn up for the start. Skipper has sole responsibility for all safety and seamanship decisions.
 

rogerthebodger

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You are fully entitled to your opinion, but you are talking total rubbish as far as regulated sports go.

Let me asy again

It the requirement to pay some self appointed origination to be able to enter an event I object to

The require foe rules and safety requirements are needed without question

I have to have my boat surveyed every year to ensure my boat is seaworthy. I don't object to that but as it is a requirement in law like all other laws we are required to comply. I do object to paying for the legally required check that my boat complies with the law in the same way that the traffic police can check I have a legal driving licence and a legal road fund lenience

If I wish to enter an event providing I comply with the rules and the safety requirement and have the required experience why must I also pay someone who stus up the rus just for the privilege to enter the event.

I also have no issue with any fee to enter any event

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/2017EligibilityCodeRegulation19-[21689].pdf

I have no issue with the Competition Eligibility if someone has breach any rules (cheated) in the past they must be excluded

It's the World Sailing Eligibility that I have an issue with requiring me to pay a third party just to be allowed to enter an event even when I comply with all the other rules and safety requirements
 

B27

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Let me asy again

It the requirement to pay some self appointed origination to be able to enter an event I object to

The require foe rules and safety requirements are needed without question
...

It's the World Sailing Eligibility that I have an issue with requiring me to pay a third party just to be allowed to enter an event even when I comply with all the other rules and safety requirements
Without the organisation there is no event.

How do events exist if people don't pay any money to the organisations who create and maintain the rules?
Events are put on and entry is invited from eligible people defined in the NoR.
I think with sailing there is a fairly special need for 'members' of an organisation to race among themselves using their own agreed rules, because they set aside bits of colregs.
If organising clubs want to invite 'the general public' they make them temporary members for the duration of the event.

Does this really play out differently in any other sports?
 

capnsensible

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Suggest that you look up the "Jester Sailing Challenge".

No sign of anarchy and no rules since they started a number of years ago. Just let them know you are interested in taking part and turn up for the start. Skipper has sole responsibility for all safety and seamanship decisions.
Isn't the first rule that you got no mates to sail with? :D
 

rogerthebodger

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Without the organisation there is no event.

How do events exist if people don't pay any money to the organisations who create and maintain the rules?
Events are put on and entry is invited from eligible people defined in the NoR.

If I wish to join an event I will pay the entry fee which is fine and will to to the organisation who arranges the event.

Wht I object to is an organization who clams to control events but does not organise then but requires any one who e=wished to enter an event to also pay then for the privilege to enter that event.

In effect paying for consent to pay a second time to enter the Event.

The conditions of the NoR should NOT place extra conditions on the event participants baes on paying an so called controlling body

It similar to a protection racket requiring payment to a self appointed origination to live in a particular place or house of run a shop
 

dunedin

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Let me asy again

It the requirement to pay some self appointed origination to be able to enter an event I object to

The require foe rules and safety requirements are needed without question

I have to have my boat surveyed every year to ensure my boat is seaworthy. I don't object to that but as it is a requirement in law like all other laws we are required to comply. I do object to paying for the legally required check that my boat complies with the law in the same way that the traffic police can check I have a legal driving licence and a legal road fund lenience

If I wish to enter an event providing I comply with the rules and the safety requirement and have the required experience why must I also pay someone who stus up the rus just for the privilege to enter the event.

I also have no issue with any fee to enter any event

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/2017EligibilityCodeRegulation19-[21689].pdf

I have no issue with the Competition Eligibility if someone has breach any rules (cheated) in the past they must be excluded

It's the World Sailing Eligibility that I have an issue with requiring me to pay a third party just to be allowed to enter an event even when I comply with all the other rules and safety requirements
I fear you don't understand much about sail racing in the UK. Almost all races are organised by clubs - mostly local sail/yacht clubs, but also things like RORC, class associations and a handful of top level events by the RYA directly.
The club volunteers put a lot of effort in to organise the event. Hence it is convention that entrants must be a member of a sailing club - or if choose not to join a sailing club, can be a personal member of the RYA instead. Hence there is generally no requirement to be a personal member of RYA to race. (There may be exceptions for some elite events, eg to race in an Olympic trial event etc, which seems fair enough.)
There are often rules requiring compulsory memberships of particular class associations to sail in their class championships - eg Fireball, ILCA etc. But again this is fair enough as these associations organise the events, measurements etc.
Doesn't seem to be an issue in the real world, at least in the UK.
 

NormanS

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PS And criticising the use of the word “sport” for sail cruising is just messing with words. All sorts of (semi) active hobbies are referred to as “sport”.
It's not a case of criticising the use of the word "sport". It's merely pointing out that the sail cruising that I do is not a sport. When I go out walking, or go for a ride on my bike, they are not sports either. The last thing that I need or want is some "regulatory body" telling me what I can or cannot do in my spare time.
 

xyachtdave

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5 pages in and curiosity got the better of me, so I’ve checked out the rebranded RYA’s website. To save you the trouble…

New Blue caps lock RYA logo, must have been a few meetings to decide on that.

Picture of canal boats. Assuming they must have starting racing these, some sort of handicap/yardstick system?

Training courses, RYA ‘Tow Path Level 1’ rising to ‘Canal Master Inland’ courses available soon.

And they’ve finally come to the conclusion there’s too many middle aged white blokes sailing, so they’re seeking out new members from other backgrounds so everyone feels better about it.

I’ve got 4 years left on my ICC.
 

rogerthebodger

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It's not a case of criticising the use of the word "sport". It's merely pointing out that the sail cruising that I do is not a sport. When I go out walking, or go for a ride on my bike, they are not sports either. The last thing that I need or want is some "regulatory body" telling me what I can or cannot do in my spare time.

100% agree

The question also comes wha when does a sail cruising hobby become a sport.

If I go cruising on a weekend yet go on a Wednesday night to sail around the bay in a sudo race hen retire to the bat for some liquid refreshment

Now if a sportsman gets paid for taking part in a sport that is provisional sport not what some sailors do on a weeknd

There sms to me to be the definition of a sport of sailing is all close to provisional sport not the cruising type of saying we do

I accept that there are voltineers who run the regattas and there are voltineers who run the clubs

Some yacht races have aa cruising section with a different set of rules.

I accept that there are regattas for class associations that need several races to collect points to get prizes at the end of the year

It I wish to have a cricket match in mt garden must I pay some association to allow me to arrange that game.

We used to have a cricket match between the 2 yacht clubs at LES an a sandbank in the harbour we did not get consent from anyone

I have a swimming pool at home we have a swimming national federation I don't pay than any money to allow me to go for a sim in my pool. Why should I

Going back to sailing we skippers are by international laws and agreements accountable for the safety on board oue boat and we can be held legally accountable if we transgress any laws.

This is under the authority of the flag country or the country th yacht is in. This we pay for by out taxes

I accept that my yachy can and should be inspected to ensure it is seawarthy but this should be confirmed by the law enforcement agency how the state has been given the duty to do so

I don't ay for the police to ensure I keep to th speed limit.

Like everywhere if I break the law (speed limit) I will get fined if convicted.

We shulf be free to do anything legal and only if we ontreven the law should we be held to task
 

Whaup367

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It's not a case of criticising the use of the word "sport". It's merely pointing out that the sail cruising that I do is not a sport. When I go out walking, or go for a ride on my bike, they are not sports either. The last thing that I need or want is some "regulatory body" telling me what I can or cannot do in my spare time.

Which, as referenced above, is one of the key missions of the RYA: ensuring there is no regulatory body telling you what you can or can't do on the water:

boat-registration - "The RYA believes that boat registration in the UK should remain voluntary."
skipper-licensing - "The RYA opposes the introduction of compulsory testing and/or licensing for the skippers of privately-operated recreational craft..."
Don't get hung up on "sport":
About the RYA - "Set up in 1875 as the Yacht Racing Association, the RYA has since become the national governing body for dinghy, motor and sail cruising, all forms of sail racing, RIBs and sportsboats, windsurfing and personal watercraft and a leading representative body for inland waterways cruising."

"dinghy, motor & sail cruising"... racing comes afterwards.
 

srm

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Perhaps the RYA needs another re-branding exercise. Something along the lines of:

"The British National Body for Water Based Activities".

It has evolved along with the broad spectrum of water based activities and is a long way from what "Yachting" was in 1875
 

Whaup367

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Perhaps the RYA needs another re-branding exercise. Something along the lines of:

"The British National Body for Water Based Activities".

It has evolved along with the broad spectrum of water based activities and is a long way from what "Yachting" was in 1875

Think they've been down this route and are trying to avoid offending the BCU, British swimming, ice sports, surfers... :)
 

rogerthebodger

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Which, as referenced above, is one of the key missions of the RYA: ensuring there is no regulatory body telling you what you can or can't do on the water:

boat-registration - "The RYA believes that boat registration in the UK should remain voluntary."
skipper-licensing - "The RYA opposes the introduction of compulsory testing and/or licensing for the skippers of privately-operated recreational craft..."
Don't get hung up on "sport":
About the RYA - "Set up in 1875 as the Yacht Racing Association, the RYA has since become the national governing body for dinghy, motor and sail cruising, all forms of sail racing, RIBs and sportsboats, windsurfing and personal watercraft and a leading representative body for inland waterways cruising."

"dinghy, motor & sail cruising"... racing comes afterwards.


Boat Registration in the UK is not compulsory . Registration or listing for non registered is also compulsory

Any ship registration is an UN Law of the sea convention requirement

RYA was Yacht Racing Association so do not represent non yacht racing vessels

We used to have a Yacht racing association and a cruising association of SA but some one decided to join the and the recers took over and required all members of affiliated to be a member of the combined association
 

Whaup367

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Boat Registration in the UK is not compulsory .
Exactly, and the RYA lobbies to keep it so.
Registration or listing for non registered is also compulsory
Pardon?
Any ship registration is an UN Law of the sea convention requirement
Yes.
RYA was Yacht Racing Association so do not represent non yacht racing vessels
Yes, they do. See above.
We used to have a Yacht racing association and a cruising association of SA but some one decided to join the and the recers took over and required all members of affiliated to be a member of the combined association

Again, not clear what you mean, here, but the racers have not taken over the RYA, if that's what you're getting at.
 

Kurrawong_Kid

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a what? Either you are a genius or you’ve no idea what QuANGO means….

I’m certain that if if the RYA was actually a government body it would be a nightmare - essentially the opposite from the RYA lobbies for just now - probably mandatory training, annual registration etc.

Presumably all the people who want it to run how it used to the 50s or whenever they first joined are willing to put ridiculous amounts of their time in to do that, on a voluntary basis? Presumably those who don’t want the lottery finding are happy to see the bits of the organisation it supports just disappear OR if they are lottery players are happy for “their good cause funds” to be given out with no regard for the governance of the recipient?

The way you are all complaining you would think that membership was in some way either compulsory or at least the defacto position. Other than a few, like instructors (who I think quite reasonably have to be members) the rest of us are free, and alway have been, to go sailing without being members. Perhaps the question is why did you join in the first place?
Quasi Autonomous National Government Authority, I believe. I rest my case, supported by the views expressed in a number of posts,
 

rogerthebodger

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You may not know I an not un the UK

So Registration or listing for non registered is also compulsory in the country I live and sail

We used to have a Yacht racing association and a cruising association of SA but some one decided to join the and the recers took over and required all members of affiliated to be a member of the combined association

Again This is in the country I live and sail
 

srm

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I’m certain that if if the RYA was actually a government body it would be a nightmare
My experience was the direct opposite.

It is many years ago that I was in the position of having certificates sent for renewal to both the RYA and the local MCA office.

The RYA buried my certificate for a couple of months. A significant number of phone calls to the appropriate desk went unanswered, or messages never got a return call, until I finally managed to speak to the right person.

While waiting for my MCA certificate I got a polite phone call from a lady asking if I had received my certificate. When I said no the response was something like, "oh dear we seem to have mislaid it". The next day she phoned again to say she had found it and it was on its way to me. In my last ten years or so of employment I had fairly frequent contacts with MCA officials and always found them courteous and professional.
 

Bristolfashion

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My experience it the reverse! I've little idea what the CA do and they don't seem to have any statutory role.
I just had a skim through their upcoming events list... the impression it gives is that anywhere north of the Wash is an adventurous destination, rather than home for their any of their members! :)

In recent years the RYA have become aware that the lack of expenditure on blowing their own trumpet is counterproductive and training centres and instructors are asked (& incentivised) to promote membership.

The RYA is the national governing body for boating, not just racing, and seems pretty effective to me: for a start, without their representation I think that licensing would be required for recreational boating, with pricing evolving to support enforcement. Just look at the industry that's grown up around HMO regulations for letting properties: local council staff expansion, training schemes for them, requirements for fire certifications, electrical installations, gas installations, green credentials... all driving up the cost of renting a home, as the tenant ultimately pays. Has this resulted in a huge reduction in deaths & injuries in rented accommodation? I don't think it has because (1) there were never that many to begin with (2) the rogue landlords letting dodgy properties just avoid the system and (3) the regulations are badly targeted. If the RYA can continue to hold the line against skipper licensing and boat registration then that's worth a chunk of (voluntary) fees in itself!
Well, a very nice person from the CA took the time to explain the benefits of membership to me at the Southampton boat show. We've met & socialised with members all around the UK & Ireland, used the discounts, attended the meetings (whether in person or by zoom), visited HO and used the info on "Captains Mate" and elsewhere. Whilst not a statutory body, they certainly campaign pretty hard - better an effective members group than an ineffective statutory body?

I'm a "joiner", if the RYA had made themselves known to me in any way and sold the benefits, maybe I'd have joined. I've done about 8 of their courses, they've had plenty of opportunities and not even a leaflet.

As an Aussie - and holder of an Australian boat licence - I'm therefore not against a very basic form of licence & registration. Should you really be able to skipper a large boat with no idea of the Colregs etc?
 

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As an Aussie - and holder of an Australian boat licence - I'm therefore not against a very basic form of licence & registration. Should you really be able to skipper a large boat with no idea of the Colregs etc?
People have been boating in the UK for years with no licence and sometimes with little knowledge. I get the impression that our boating 'accident' rate is no worse than countries that require a licence and training and long may it continue. There is I believe an upper limit to size without a licence, but that doesn't affect many if any UK boaters on here apart from commercial operations. Most people new to boating do training as they don't want to create problems, put other family members and friends off their new interest.
I have bits of paper for the theory side but I learnt from my dad and I believe that he learnt from his dad, my grandfather for the practical side.
 
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