RYA and e-borders

[FinesseChris]

Prompted by the recent thread I have had another look at the current RYA Magazine. This contains a series of questions about the e-borders scheme, the replies to which do nothing to ease my apprehension.

However I would like to draw attention to the RYA's role in this.

The RYA, according to the magaine (p22) "has been in regular contact with the e-borders team... The scheme is a programme that will enhance the security and management of the UK's border..."

Now the safety of the UK's borders may be a matter for MPs, the police, the customs, the military or the Home Office. It is NOT the business of the RYA.

If the RYA feel they have to be in on the discussions they must stick to practicalities and refrain from agreeing that the scheme (or any other such) is necessary.

My feeling is that the dangers to safe seamanship inherent in the Scheme (which have been well covered by those more expert than myself) make it vital that the RYA oppose it. Full stop.

I have written to the RYA asking that they stick to what they are paid and/or elected to do: look after the interests of boaters. The paranoia can be left to Whitehall.

 

[DJE]

I read that article and it left me furious. There is nothing approaching a statement of the RYA's opinion on the scheme, no appreciation of the effects on the average yachtsman, just a feeble towing of the government line. Isn't there something in their constitution about "Representing the interests of everyone who goes boating for pleasure" or words to that effect? No sign of anything approaching that from them on this issue.

 

[Koeketiene]

[ QUOTE ]
I have written to the RYA asking that they stick to what they are paid and/or elected to do: look after the interests of boaters. The paranoia can be left to Whitehall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well done - every member should do so.
Otherwise the blue blazers might not get the message.

The RYA should oppose this. Full stop.

 

[maxi77]

I fear that opposing the E Borders initiative wholesale is just as bad as agreeing with it. The RYA should be restricting their comments and the force of their opposition to the completely impractical method of implementation as far as recreational boating is concerned. Any other aspect of it is wholly outside their authority and remit.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Or suggest extensions to it that will point out to the instigators that it is totally ludicrous....
such as suggesting that the length of the notification to travel period be based upon a met office forecast for the next 5 days, and should vary dynamically as that forecast changes every 4 hrs, and that all reporting should be possible via VHF and HF radio and that they need to therefore negotiate agreements with all European Coastguard operators, and that crew manifests should be acceptable to change with less than 2 hrs notice, and that they must staff the reporting service based not upon time of year, or time of day, but force of forecasted winds....

This could be fun..... I can think of a dozen more 'difficult but necessary' features of the service they need to build in!

 

[Ariadne]

All well and good, but the RYA is about as gutless as the polititions. They will do exactly what the party tells them to do! Unless of course, it will make them some money; in which case they will choose the option that earns the most for the least amount of input.

I think the RYA forgot about the rights of Mr yachtsman years ago, now (IMHO) its just wants to make cash and play very badly at politics.

 

[FinesseChris]

Speedy reply: 2 hours dead! I await Summer mag with interest (others may care to join the debate...)

"Thank you for your recent email concerning the e-Borders article in the 2009 Spring edition of the RYA magazine. The Legal Department will be responding to your email and to others on the same issue in an article which we hope will appear in the 2009 Summer edition of the RYA magazine. [In that article, we will explain the proposed scheme in the context of the history of UK Customs reporting requirements and set out the basis of the RYA's current position on the proposals.]
Regards
Mandy E Peters
RYA Legal Advisor"

 

[EdWingfield]

I wholeheartedly support the e-borders scheme and so should we all.

I understand that where trials have taken place they've caught sex trade traffickers, drug dealers and a murderer.

It's likely that as borders become more watertight our dodgy characters will choose to move to where there are fewer controls and fewer risks. ie. small boats like ours.

 

[Koeketiene]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that where trials have taken place they've caught sex trade traffickers, drug dealers and a murderer.

[/ QUOTE ]

What trails /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Where? When? Source?

 

[ebbtide]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that where trials have taken place they've caught sex trade traffickers, drug dealers and a murderer.quote]

That will make these pages quieter then!
No names no packdrill . . .

 

[cnh]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that where trials have taken place they've caught sex trade traffickers, drug dealers and a murderer.

It's likely that as borders become more watertight our dodgy characters will choose to move to where there are fewer controls and fewer risks. ie. small boats like ours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gosh. I've just killed someone! I know, I'll go and buy a Westerly Centaur and sail over to France. That'll keep me out of jail.

 

[grafozz]

is it time to ditch the RYA ? are they really representing us ? is it true the government are considering putting them in uniform , with peaked caps , of course??

 

[sighmoon]

I found this , which has the following quote:

"Already e-Borders has screened over 75 million passengers against immigration, customs and police watch-lists, leading to over 2,700 arrests for crimes such as murder, rape and assault."

So there you go. Apparently, before the eborders trials, if you were wanted by the police, you could still get on a flight leaving the UK, which frankly, I find astonishing.

From the government's perspective, it makes sense that if you're going to tighten borders, that must include the sea border. It obviously won't address the problem at all, as those it's aimed at won't file passage plans, but for politicians it's important to be seen to be doing something, and without any better alternatives on the table, this is what they came up with.

Large swathes of the populace objected to the Iraq war with no result, so you can be pretty certain a few disgruntled boaters aren't going to get a boondoggle scrapped by merely objecting.

If there is any chance at all of preventing this measure in its current form, then it must be in proposing a more workable alternative.

 

[Koeketiene]

[ QUOTE ]
I found this , which has the following quote:

"Already e-Borders has screened over 75 million passengers against immigration, customs and police watch-lists, leading to over 2,700 arrests for crimes such as murder, rape and assault."

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just a quote from a politician. Hardly fact.
Credit every apprehended villain to e-Borders, and hey presto...

[ QUOTE ]

It obviously won't address the problem at all, as those it's aimed at won't file passage plans, but for politicians it's important to be seen to be doing something


[/ QUOTE ]

Which was sort of my point all along.
Perception politics - it will cost millions and won't achieve anything.
For that reason alone e-Borders for yachts deserves to be binned.
With the money saved, maybe we could bail out another bank. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Cantata]

[ QUOTE ]

is it time to ditch the RYA ? are they really representing us ? is it true the government are considering putting them in uniform , with peaked caps , of course??

[/ QUOTE ]
Seems to be a view that is spreading.
I wonder if the CA would do a better job?

 

[sailorman]

that was wot i was wondering
should we "Jump Ship"

 

[LadyJessie]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if the CA would do a better job?

[/ QUOTE ]You are kidding, right? The CA has been asleep for decades.

 

[JohnRob]

The responses in RYA magazine were simply disturbing, and if they were there to alleviate boaters concerns, it shows how detached from reality the blazers must be.

Do you trust this government with the data? what about the next government or the one after that? One day, when its all to late, someone will voice an opinion, and that data will be misused.

Those who do not want to be identified will not be detected by this initiative.

ItS

 

[Peegee]

No incentive for the RYA to object. Every new regulation puts them in a more (self) important position. They will be looking to police the leisure boating end of it.

 

[jac]

As members though don;t members get the chance to raise motions etc at the AGM. If we get a motion raised saying that the RYA must object to it unless it covers all the scenarios that have been mentioned in this thread and the motion gets carried then doesn't the RYA HAVE to do what the AGM demands??