Running Backstays on Keelers?

[sasailor]

Right now to highlight my total ignorance – the Quarter Tunner has running back stays – how do I set them (and their twins to forard) up and more importantly when and how do I use them to improve performance. It looks simple enough but I have found that I tend to assume things and then have to walk around the deck looking embarrassed and picking up broken fittings (and occasionally crew)…I am assuming that I tighten up the windward and slack the leeward and have remember to slacken everything prior to tacking??? It seems that this would be a good way to prevent a banana shaped boom?

Am I right in assuming that all gets tightened down for running? Sorry about this but I am a virgin when it comes to all these controls…have done most of my keelboat sailing on a hunter and due to gorilla phisique most of my keelboat racing time on the foredeck changing headsails and cranking winches and flying spinnakers of the stern. Just followed orders now I’m supposed to give them, I think it would help if I understood the principles of sailing the boat


Tel +2731 267 0646
Cell +278234 22 33 6
Durban South Africa

 

[oldsaltoz]

G'day Sasailor,

Running back stays keep your mast in column, a bit like lower shrouds aft of the mast, running back stays give you more control than fixed lowers. The idea is to tighten the windward runner to correct mast bend. Slack off as soon at the tension is off the mast when tacking and start pulling the other one, leaving it too late will cause it to foil the boob, doing it too early will stress the mast. Run a search on sail trimming and look for running back stay tuning and trim.

I raced a Masram fitted with runners, and like you it took a bit of getting used to. After 5 seasons we replaced them with swept back spreaders and lowers, the overall effect was more wins and less worry in heavy conditions.

Hope this helps, I'm sure others will have more recent experience and good advice to help you further.

Avanicechristmas Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif.

 

[castaway]

Another trick to keep the stays tidy is to run elastic bungees fwd from the runners to the shouds, stops em flapping around

Nick

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.yachtsite.co.uk/fairweather>http://www.yachtsite.co.uk/fairweather</A>

 

[snowleopard]

structural runners???

met these on a mad racing friend's boat. no backstay, no swept-back spreaders. let both runners go and the mast goes over the bow. how's that for a seamanlike rig?!

 

[aod]

I think if you are new to them they can be a bit of a worry but once you get used to setting them up they do offer far greater flexibility than swept backs.

How you set them up depends on the characteristics of the spar......i.e. a Proctor rig behaves differently to a Formula Spars rig, a Selden is different to a Proctor etc etc......!

I would suggest that you go out on a trial and crank on the windward runner..........do the hoist and then sail to off the wind. Release the runner until the mast is straight and then mark off the runner with indel pen or paint or something so that you will always know that once that mark in visible at a certain point (either through a runner jammer or a mark on the deck) that the mast is safe.

Tack and do the same on the other side and you have a base line. Then go on the wind and crank the windward runner until you have the desired bend and again mark the rope.

When you tack you need to do it as slow as the person doing the runner is to get the new runner on. ALWAYS have one runner on so the windward runner isn't let off until the leeward runner is ready. Then complete the tack letting the other runner off as you do so. On the wind isn't so bad because the when the sails hard in the leach hold up the rig but it's bad practice to rely on this.

When gybing you need the mainsheet person to pull in the main and the runner person to pull in the runner at the same time while the helm sails dead down wind. Put the boat through the gybe and finish tensioneing the new runner and then let the other runner off BEFORE the main is released onto the new tack. This is a crytical manouvre espec when it's windy so I strongly advise plenty of practice on a light airs day.

Top Tips: With a runner boat the helms concentration is crytical and a common error is for the helm to monitor what is happening all over the boat and lose concentration. The helm MUST merely concentrate on the wind and rely on the runner and main person to tell them when they are ready (hence the runner marks).

Even when beating I wouldn't wind the runners on to induce mast bend until it reached about 16 knots wind speed (on my boat) the point being that you will go faster with the mast straight and thus powering up the main until it becomes over marginaly difficult and then you need to alter the tensions before considering flattening the main sail and straightening the headsail luff by inducing mast bend. In other words mast bend is pointless untill you have already depowered the main by flattened the mainsail sail with the halyard, cunningham and outhaul. If you are still over pressed then induce mast bend.
Regardless of what you read on these forums the kicker doesn't do anything when hard on the wind because the mainsheet does it all.
Down wind sailing you should always have the mast straight to keep the kite away from the boat.

If you have wire runners then can (and do) tend to chafe the back of the mainsail. I suffered this problem for years before changing over to kevlar which made a considerable difference. Also cover your blocks with leather or old heavy sail material which also stops them damaging the sail and smashing against the boom.

It's impossible to tell you how hard to wind the runners on without a load cell because it all depends on the size of the winches, the length of the handle and the strength of the person winding, so you will simply have to experiment to see the correct gegree of bend for your mast and sails.

Someone else on this forum gave a top tip which is, if you are doing something to one end of a rope watch what happens to the other end because lazy runners can sometimes get caught around the spreaders and if they wind them on for England they can damage the spreader, mast and runner.

I have written this in a bit of a rush because of the day so please excuse the spelling and grammer. I expect some of what I have said is grandma and eggs stuff but I hope you find some useful stuff here. Plus of course I know that some people on the forums will have different points of view.

Have a great time with your new boat and I hope you have a great Christmas and New Year.

 

[sasailor]

Re: Running Backstays - THANKS

Thank you all for the running backstay advice, seems like I am to embark on a helofa learning curve here. At least I do have the benefit of a backstay with massive tensioning possibilities and backward spreaders (possibly the previous owner believed in OVERKILL on mast bend), so am unlikely to lose the mast over the bow. I really did not expect responses today of all days so yet again thanks and have a good one.

Tel +2731 267 0646
Cell +278234 22 33 6
Durban South Africa