Round the World Cruising Yacht - Westerly, Moody, Amel - Am I on the right track?

[nickpre]

I know this question has been asked in many formats, many times (and I have read most of the old threads) Please bear with me.

I am quite seriously looking at beginning a circumnavigation and am sifting through the various possibilities as many have done before me.

I am reasonably well experienced (for my age - 32) and have crewed/stood watch on a number of coastal/offshore passages totalling apx 2000miles in various conditions but am yet to make the break and actually sail an ocean. With that in mind I am looking for an easy to handle (shorthanded when necessary) safe and comfortable blue water cruiser which I can call home during my potentially quite extended circumnavigation.

Thus far my research (and budget) have lead me towards the following:
Westerly Oceanquest/seahawk
Moody 346/376
Oyster 39
Amel Marimu
Jeanneau Gin Fizz (New at budget end of the list and inspired by Laura Dekker)

I believe all of the above to be capable, well built and have good reputations and reasonable performance. Clearly I favour a centre cockpit layout with spacious accommodation for live aboard, I want to be comfortable and safe above all. I am speaking in general terms and for the purposes of this discussion I assume each boat is in the same condition as I would always favour whichever yacht were in better condition over a design that appeals in theory but is in a mess.

I am currently favouring the top end of my budget Amel Maramu (not to be confused with the Super Maramu which is well out of my price range)
My reasons: Extremely well built, its big and spacious, ketch rig for easier short handing, fixed dodger and steering position appeal to me, no exposed wood/teak deck time bomb to worry about in those tropical climes, water-tight bulkheads, a lot of 'luxury kit' for my money - although admittedly this could translate as 'complicated electrical stuff that could go wrong! I also like the look of it although I suspect others will have their own opinions. There are a lot of positives for this yacht if I can find a good enough one - Does anyone know any negatives or have any comments at all on any of the others (which I know have been debated here previously)

Thanks for any help/advice!

 

[dom]

Just happened upon this lost post. Anybody?

 

[Ludd]

Just happened upon this lost post. Anybody?

If you can find an Amel that fits your budget-----there's your answer.
Nowadays, though, with modern sail handling equipment, the advantages of a ketch are somewhat reduced.
Any of the Westerlys will be old , and some of the bigger ones when Westerly were in their last throes before dying had every extra added but quality control in the layup seemed to go by the board.
People go round the world in all sorts of boats.
Bigger allows you to be more independent of marinas, but cost more to use marinas.
You need to decide how much you want to/can spend, then make your choices.

 

[Kelpie]

Not really answering the specific question, but I would say most boats (within limits, obviously) are capable of a circumnav if properly kitted out and maintained.
Secondhand boats are very individual, more so as they get older and further away from factory spec, so it makes little sense to choose one particular make/model as you might overlook a more suitable boat.

 

[ip485]

I am biased, but I would add an Island Packet to your list. The claim is often made that they are pedestrian. It is unjustified. They arent the fastest to windward but their performance is reasonable. Downwind they perform very well, and of course that is the direction you want to be going around the world.

They do offer woderful volume, superb build quality, are well supported by Island Packet, and are "safe" and easy to handle. I think they have a great deal to offer and are often over looked. I had exactly the same list but added the IP and was easily persuaded it was the best option. I have no regrets what so ever.

The other advantage is if you can find a good one the price is often more reasonable than the others you have mentoned simply because in Europe they are less well known and in the States they are priced for the American market which has laways offered better value.

You are welcome to PM me if I can help further and you would like to see one and it happens to be somewhere near you.

 

[Tranona]

To an extent your choice of boat may depend on where you are starting from and what you intend doing with the boat when you finish. Based on the boats in your list, guess you are looking at a budget of +/- £50k and UK based, in which case you have chosen some that are commonly used for the purpose. On the other hand it effectively rules out many suitable boats (like the IPs) because they were never sold in any volume in Europe. If you intend returning to the EU then it makes sense to buy a boat that was built in the EEA or has a CE mark, plus evidence of VAT payment. Otherwise you will have difficulty selling it at a later date. If you don't have these restrictions you will find a bigger choice in other parts of the world, although not necessarily centre cockpit.

The choice of centre cockpit boats is much more limited than aft cockpit in this size range and is effectively limited to the old UK built boats similar to the ones you mention plus a few European models such as the older HRs and some Bavarias. As already noted these boats are now old and condition varies enormously, plus many will have been modified over the years. A lot of the boats for sale will have done similar things to what you are planning, which may or may not be a good thing. Many are for sale because the owners are giving up or realise that the boat requires a lot of work to get it back to a good standard. Do not be surprised if you need to spend £20k+ on a £50k boat, and remember costs for replacement gear is related to £200k new boat.

 

[E39mad]

For round the world cruising I would personally knock Moody, Westerley and Jeanneau off your list and look at additional boats like:

Trident Warrior 38
Vancouver 36 (bigger internally than you'd think!)

 

[Minchsailor]

I can't imagine a centre cockpit boat would be that good for extended ocean cruising - think of rolling down waves for days on end, or surviving in winds of 60kns+ with waves sweeping over the decks. Give me good deep cockpit anytime.

My personal preference would be for a boat with loads of room (not the same as a lot of bunks/cabins) which is well balanced and can be steered in the most appalling conditions by a windvane. A big Rival?. Bowman 40?. Island Packet has been mentioned. Cutter rig would be nice.

Read the logs of the ocean sailors on the RCC web site. They often sail, to us 'weekend' sailors, fairly unconventional boats - gaff or junk rig.

A broker friend once said to me that a good place to buy a serious cruising boat was Gibraltar; people had set off with good intentions, done the Bay of Biscay, and chickened out. A boat there is likely to have had most of the work necessary for extended passage making - decent sails, rigging, windvane self steering and so on - and being a distress sale, probably a good price. Any additional stuff needed in Gib. will be VAT free.

 

[TQA]

I would choose the Amel Maramu over the other boats you mention.

My only reservation is the dependence on the availability of electrons and and the continuing function of all the furling electrickery.

I think I have seen Maramus with manual headsail reefing and slab reefing on the main and mizzen and this would be my choice. The Sharki is certainly set up that way. When I was on my boat hunt for my forever boat a Sharki was high on the list.

Henri built proper long distance cruisers and not marina bubble boats.

 

[PhilipH]

You say you will undertake a quite extended circumnavigation. You don't mention route, but if it is the Tropics route via the Panama Canal, you will be most often in a very hot climate. You say you want plenty of space - a centre cockpit does not provide it where you need it, i.e. on deck for lounging, partying etc. An aft cockpit will deliver. The centre cockpit will give you a larger main sleeping cabin, but you will not spend most of your time there. We have been in company with lots of people with center cockpits and at party/drinks/sundowners time, going below to the saloon is a poor option when there is not enough shaded space on deck, even with lots of fans. Moreover, on the boats you are listing the centre cockpit will be quite small and the cockpit is where you will get shade (bimini) and breeze.

 

[nimbusgb]

If your budget gets you there then a Maramu is the way to go.

 

[G12]

Agree with Vancouver entirely - I own one and she's fantastic, however I also disagree with knocking Westerly off the list. Bob Shepton has done some mega adventures in his Discus Dodo's Delight. Those boats are built like tanks, the knuckle on the bow really helps keep the deck dry and there's a massive amount of room inside compared to similar sized offerings from other makes. They come alive when others are going home. I've done many many miles in a Westerly 33 which has the same hull as the Discus, just a different layout.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Dodo's+delight&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=Mp_CVNfMJMzdPevEgBA

 

[ip485]

Personally I think a centre cockpit works well; I could give lots of reasons. However I agree with the other posts, I am not sure it works so well on anything less than 40ish feet.

Do think about how robust the boat is. The reality is most boats are designed to potter around the coast on an occasional basis - you will be putting more miles on than the average sailor does in a lifetime. You will also be in places where any substantial repairs will prove really challenging. Friends purchased a Moody 49, its a beautiful yacht, but going up the Amazon they holed the hull - nothing too serious, unitl they discovered the balsa core was very effective at absorbing water and the skill set to repair the hull properly was not avaialble anywhere within a 1,000 miles. By the time the yacht got back to the UK a very substantial and expensive repair proved necessary. On the other hand had the hull been solid glassfibre it may well not have punctured in the first place, and if it had, you could slap on some resin and matt almost anywhere.

 

[Gwylan]

Based on nearly 10 years experience I would go for the Seahawk.

For is the overall comfort, decent galley, storage, fore cabin for guests, good nav station, easy sail. Good water and diesel capacity. Well made, but not pretty. Have to like the high cockpit, generally things are very bad when you get wet in the cockpit.

Against, mooring stern to is a pain, not flash and not the best close hauled sail. Not too easy to manoeuvre in tight spaces. Sensitive to winds, has been accused of being like a Ford transit in any cross wind
.

Undecided, bilge keel. Handy for lots of places not useful for lots of places and does influence sailing performance.

As a long term live aboard there will be some mods necessary

 

[tcm]

I can't imagine a centre cockpit boat would be that good for extended ocean cruising - think of rolling down waves for days on end, or surviving in winds of 60kns+ with waves sweeping over the decks. Give me good deep cockpit anytime.

My personal preference would be for a boat with loads of room (not the same as a lot of bunks/cabins) which is well balanced and can be steered in the most appalling conditions by a windvane. A big Rival?. Bowman 40?. Island Packet has been mentioned. Cutter rig would be nice.

Read the logs of the ocean sailors on the RCC web site. They often sail, to us 'weekend' sailors, fairly unconventional boats - gaff or junk rig.

A broker friend once said to me that a good place to buy a serious cruising boat was Gibraltar; people had set off with good intentions, done the Bay of Biscay, and chickened out. A boat there is likely to have had most of the work necessary for extended passage making - decent sails, rigging, windvane self steering and so on - and being a distress sale, probably a good price. Any additional stuff needed in Gib. will be VAT free.

60 knot winds on a rtw cruise eh? No .... mainly in Scotland, and even then, likely only out of season.

We actualy need more info. Is the OP gonna sail around in a year, or ten years? At five knots, the 30k miles takes 6k hours at 5kts = 240 days, so the rest of the time (over five months) is anchored up, liveabaording.

If taking longer than a year then you looking for boat that is more of a house/hom... and if the boat is your house, the dinghy is your car. Forget the roll-up rubbish - you need 8feet absolute minimum and 10hp for two people. Most get 10ft and 15hp, or more.

Oh the sailing, yeah, well, once clear of the Channel/Biscay it's pretty soft stuff, largely downwind and the power of the rig, stabiilty on the limit etc the least of your issues.

OK well yeah, the Amel will be fine, check out Jackster still in the Pacific somewhere

 

[obmij]

If you've just 'crewed and stood watch' I reckon you're better buying the wrong boat first. Any boat really, as long as it's reasonably cheap and seaworthy.

Skipper it to Ireland or France, maybe head across Biscay..

Then you'll know what you want and wont need a forum to tell you

 

[Monique]

We are setting off on a RTW on 1 July. We searched, reviewed, analyzed, viewed (drove more than 6000kms) all your selections plus many additional ones such as IP, Najad, Malo, Trintella, Cigalle and others. ALL were blue water cruisers.

We chose an OLD Amel Super Maramu and we are in the midst of a large refit. We'll have a 25 YO boat with all new systems at considerable price advantage to the runner up, an HR 53 with huge teak surfaces.... which we did not want..!!.

IP485 has a very interesting POV regarding hull construction. You do not need to buy into headaches.. many will happen on their own.

That said, an Amel Super Maramu is an electrical gonzo but most important systems are backed up mechanically and are sturdy. In our opinion, Amel is the best price/quality for serious blue water cruisers. Additionally, the Amel owner's forum is an amazing resource; better than any other manufacturer.. again IMO.

If you can get a Santorin within your budget... consider it carefully. It has many additional plusses beyond the Maramu.

GL

 

[tcm]

I know this question has been asked in many formats, many times (and I have read most of the old threads) Please bear with me.

I am quite seriously looking at beginning a circumnavigation and am sifting through the various possibilities as many have done before me.

I am reasonably well experienced (for my age - 32) and have crewed/stood watch on a number of coastal/offshore passages totalling apx 2000miles in various conditions but am yet to make the break and actually sail an ocean. With that in mind I am looking for an easy to handle (shorthanded when necessary) safe and comfortable blue water cruiser which I can call home during my potentially quite extended circumnavigation.

Thus far my research (and budget) have lead me towards the following:
Westerly Oceanquest/seahawk
Moody 346/376
Oyster 39
Amel Marimu
Jeanneau Gin Fizz (New at budget end of the list and inspired by Laura Dekker)

I believe all of the above to be capable, well built and have good reputations and reasonable performance. Clearly I favour a centre cockpit layout with spacious accommodation for live aboard, I want to be comfortable and safe above all. I am speaking in general terms and for the purposes of this discussion I assume each boat is in the same condition as I would always favour whichever yacht were in better condition over a design that appeals in theory but is in a mess.

I am currently favouring the top end of my budget Amel Maramu (not to be confused with the Super Maramu which is well out of my price range)
My reasons: Extremely well built, its big and spacious, ketch rig for easier short handing, fixed dodger and steering position appeal to me, no exposed wood/teak deck time bomb to worry about in those tropical climes, water-tight bulkheads, a lot of 'luxury kit' for my money - although admittedly this could translate as 'complicated electrical stuff that could go wrong! I also like the look of it although I suspect others will have their own opinions. There are a lot of positives for this yacht if I can find a good enough one - Does anyone know any negatives or have any comments at all on any of the others (which I know have been debated here previously)

Thanks for any help/advice!

Longer = better

 

[nimbusgb]

With a centre cockpit you are closer to the centre of motion so pitching is felt a little less.

My family spent 12 years cruising an Amel. Med, Atlantic, US, Central and South America. They are incredibly well found and well sorted vessels.

I doubt you will find an owner who is unhappy with theirs or that feels they would rather have something else.

 

[V1701]

If you are looking at £50k ish for initial purchase firstly I'd just have a real good look at what's available that might suit. Personally I'd vote for a Rival 38 purely because I crewed on one from Phuket to Maldives which is the only proper ocean sailing I've done. She was great with a crew of 2 & a lot of the skipper's RTW was done singlehanded. I'd also look at Vancouver 32 pretty much based on reputation alone but know someone with one in home marina & weren't they voted best long distance cruiser ever or something?