Rough weather what to do?

[mrplastic]

I was bringing my boat back down from Southwold to Ipswich last Sunday morning afer the weekend, she's a 35' sports cruiser with twin KAD 43's turning outdrives.

We left at around 10 am having looked at the tidal streams which gave us slack water. We had the wind against us and pretty much assumed it was going to be hard going. We were right, we found ourselves in at least a force six and the going was so slow that the tide turned with 20 miles left to go.

The wind over tide was horrendous. The boat was constantly swamped with huge waves and visibility was crap. We went in close to shore and although better it was still very wet and very rough, the patches of overfalls were an experience I would have happily gone without! I tried displacement speed with the drives tucked in and the tabs down, planing through it, and 'tacking' up and down the tide flow but nothing seemed to make any real difference.

Is there something else I could have tried? (apart from not going out in the first place).

The boat itself handled it all extremely well and at no time did anyone on board feel unsafe, but it was horrible all the same and any tips or relevent experiences would be read with interest.

CLP

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[tcm]

hm, well at least you lived to tell the tale. Going inshore is a bit dangerous, obviously.

Options include doing all that you did plus, as you half-suggested, turning back. It sounds as though you have never done this? Mebbe, mebbe not. It's quite a sound policy, and sometimes the very best, and i sort-of feel that if a skipper has never turned back - they are less of a skipper. Certainly lots of training doesn't focus on the idea that you can turn back (and sometimes should), and our busy busy lives with hugely capable land transport reinforces this - I remeber my parents with crap cars turning back on a car journey more than once. Ignore the negative conotations of "giving up" or "wimping out" - sometimes it's time to turn back.



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[hlb]

Always worried me about sports boats getting swamped. As TCM said. Turning back is an option!

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Haydn

 

[mrplastic]

Certainly turning back was an option I did consider and I have aborted trips in the past because of bad weather, another option I had considered had the situation worsened was to beach the boat and worry about about it later! Going in close to shore gave me that option. I agree with your comments and turning back would have certainly been an easy trip with the wind behind us and a favourable tide! It is certainly something I shall do if faced with a sea like that one again, in my book lessons are best learnt through experience even if we never intend to deliberately repeat it!



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[mainshiptom]

I often try and change course ? maybe up the waves at an angle rather then falling off waves, Music is always good a s well if you can hear it?

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[TargaLout]

Going into a F6 wind will always be rough and wet. Wind over tide is the worst. At slack water it may die down a bit, maybe the peaks might flatten out abit? Best is wind with tide as this is the best scenario you will get if your lucky the peaks might get flattened considerably. If however its been windy for a good while it takes a good while for the sea to calm down. So I would have waited for wind with tide got as much weight forward, covers up and gone for it.
As TCM said know when to turn back or not to go.... its all about being a good skipper.

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[Greg2]

Had a similar experience going Lowestoft to the Orwell a couple of weeks ago. Wind over tide (wind on the nose or off the bow) F5 to 6 - off Otrford Ness the sea was very confused, crashing into troughs one minute and being knocked sideways the next (corkscrewing). We went 2 to 3 miles off, thinking it was enough, but have since been advised that 5 miles off is better unless you can hit it at slack water. We were in company with a sports boat and they had it rough, although they did comment on the cleanliness of the bottom of our hull!!

Came back the inshore route in very calm weather but wouldn't like to be that close in when it is rough, lots of lobster pots and the tidal rip can be grim (as you know). Might be worth trying the offshore route next time?

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[mrplastic]

The same route pretty much! We started out offshore about 4 miles but it got so bad that I figured I try inshore to see if the land gave us any shelter from the wind. Orford was terrible, like you we suffered a very confused sea, one minute on the beam, then back on the nose and sometime a mixture of both. Next time I will probably turn back!

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[adarcy]

Re: Read Dag Pike ?

"Fast boats rough seas" or vice versa.

Excellent book and you can't have my copy, try ebay as it's a few years old now.

Essentially a fast planing hull has more options than people think

1 - Crashing through it regardless - bad for the hull fittings, your health your reputation w SWMBO etc
2 - Crashing through it w tabs down ? some leg in - to cut through with the finer deeper vee front - but may not be much better than solution no1
3 - Slow right down say 6-8 knots - and just plough through it up and downey some get seasick
4 - Keep just on the plane but use the throttle intelligently - much more tricky and you're bound to get it wrong ocasionally until you get used to it. When you give it a good burst of throttle, the bow comes up which you use to avoid stuffing the bow in the trough of the waves, you accelerate up the big wave and cut the power before the crest. This drops the bow so it cuts through the crest and you don't go shooting into the next trough. Used in conjunction with going across the wave pattern (ie long zig-zags) which increases "the distance between the waves" you can fairly easily keep 18 knots or so on the log. Obviously SOG is less but you get out of the nasty stuff v much quicker than 6 knots

Sorry forgot
5 - Turn back

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by adarcy on 31/08/2004 17:27 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[mrplastic]

Re: Read Dag Pike ?

Now that sounds interesting, I'll definitely try to get hold of a copy. Of course that system can only work if you can actually SEE the waves coming at you. All that spray being whipped up by the wind reduces visibility by a considerable margin!

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Read Dag Pike ?

You missed one! He also suggested speeding up so that you skip along from wave crest to wave crest without crashing into the troughs in between. Not sure I want to try it though. The thought of getting it slightly wrong and stuffing the bow into a 8' wave at 30knots does'nt bear thinking about. Race boats only methinks!
Excellent book though

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[Peppermint]

Re: I\'m a raggie but

I'd have thought searoom applied to MoBo's too. Staying inshore is shortening your options if engines fail, which they do in the rough stuff because of the churning of fuel, and shallow water is likely to be more turbulent than the deeper stuff.

Beaching is a thought but crikey you'd have to be desperate. I suspect you'd more than a light valeting after choosing that option.

Few MoBo's and even fewer crew members are designed for the F6 on the nose. You need a bit of fine entry at the bows, like a Nelson or something, and that's going to mean a very wet ride.

Of course raggies do this stuff for fun.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Get a flybridge boat?

Your story reminds me how bad sports boats can be in rough weather and how much safer you would feel with a good helm seat and decent visibility. The problem with sports boats is that, once the spray starts coming over the windscreen, you have to batten down tha canopy which invariably leaks anyway. You will probably have to stand up to see over the bow but you cant see through the clear panels in the canopy because of the spray and they're scratched/opaque anyway. You try sitting down but the windscreen has misted up and the wipers are crap/broken so you cant see through that either. You then switch on the radar because you're worried about not seeing anything and staring at the radar screen makes you seasick. Through all this, you're having to hang on to the steering wheel for dear life because you're standing up or perched on the end of the (crappy) helm seat
Come on sports boat fans, tell me this isnt true?
At least with a flybridge boat, you have a choice of helming inside in the dry. You may not see much but at least you'll feel vaguely in control. Alternatively, you can brave the flybridge. You'll be wet and freezing cold but at least you'll see the waves coming and be able to helm accordingly and see any other lunatics out there .

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[AJW]

Beaching?!! A definate no no, especially on that bit of coast.

Had you beached around Orford you would have risked injury or worse to the crew and at the very least severe damage to the boat. There is an illusion of security in being close to the land but in reality it presents more danger, as I say particularly in that area. Searoom gives you options, even if one of them is if things get extreme is to call for help!

Orford Ness can be rough so in hindsight maybe heading out further would have been a better option. Also deeper water tends to be better - bigger waves mebbe but less sharp and steep (the bette noir of any planing boat.)

Apart from the obvious turning back scenario I think the only other option with a bit more success would have been driving through it - keeping on the plane and working the throttles to avoid major stuffings etc. This is the technique I've used on RIBS upto 30ft but it does need some skill, experience and a bit of guts. Particularly if the family are cold, tired and scared! I would imagine similar technique could be used on 35ft sportscruiser but others more knowledgeable than me will comment I'm sure!

I've done that self same trip a number of times. 45 mins or less in dead calm to a 2-3 hours in the rough. Orford is nasty as is Sizewell. Also lots of pots around so need to keep your eyes peeled!

AJ

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[mrplastic]

Re: Get a flybridge boat?

That made me laugh out loud, sounds like the voice of experience to me!

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[slipstream242]

Re: Read Dag Pike ?

I was out on Sunday afternoon showing off the rib to (non boaty)my sister and her husband;within minutes of leaving Harwich entrance everyone was soaked through.I thought that conditions would improve further out but that didn't seem to work.

If I was doing Southwold to Ipswich I think I would have aborted just because it is not that much fun although the boat would be ok.

The overfalls at the ness can be nasty although normally they are confined to a relatively short space of water -I can imagine that it was not the place to be on Sunday

I have read Dag Pike but I don't think that would have helped too much - you seem to have done all you could in the circumstances except abort.Crest to crest only works if the length of the wave is short enough for our boat -if not you'll just plunge off the top into the trough.On Sunday the waves were relatively short off Harwich and I was up to 20kts. but it was hardly a glide over the top -more like dodging the dollops and trying to clear the salt from the eyes

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[adarcy]

Re: Read Dag Pike ?

<<Crest to crest only works if the length of the wave is short enough for our boat -if not .....>>

Agree but (for Deleted User) I thought I had covered that in solution 1 - just bashing through it regardless.

Lengthening the waves by going diagonally makes tweaking the throttles easier (and less risky)

In reply to AJW <<on 35ft sportscruiser >> it works on all planing boats as long as you have enough power. I first had to use it on our Fairline Targa27 w 2x205 Volvo petrols and it worked a treat. I was unsure if it would translate to a much heavier, less sporty/responsive boat but I can assure you a heavily laden Princess45 with CATs responds nearly as well. In some ays it was easier as the grunt of the CATs was smoother to apply than the sharper on/off of the T27 petrols with duoprops. Also with 10+ tons and 45 ft things happen slower so the helmsman is not hanging on to the throttles so much whilst wrestling with the wheel

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[PaulF]

This rough weather stuff certainly brings one down to earth. The one thing I really hate is poor visibility when its rough, when very clear it can be exhilerating. I really dislike putting spray hoods and canopies up unless essential, but when spray is belting at you towels dont last long! Maybe a straight face visor, like a welders, but clear would be useful!

You did say everybody was ok and not frightened, this is important and friendships can really be strained if one persons fear point is dramatically different from the others. The problem is sometimes people do not realise or give indication of this fear until they experience it.
Turning back, as TCM said, can be a very sensible move. Most of us do our boating for pleasure, and excitement, sometimes the lines get blurred when our natural optimism leads us into conditions that maybe we should avoid. Poor weather forecasts can also lead one into poor conditions, Better to leave a boat miles from home and inconvenient, rather than scaring the daylights out of family and friends risking creating a permanent horror of our lovely pastime.

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[LittleShip]

The plus side of the experience is that you now know your limits and you also know it's much lower than the boats??

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I wish I'd been born rich instead of good looking ?

 

[hlb]

Re: Get a flybridge boat?

All the other point work, well upto a point, but if it gets realy bad and especialy if theres no direction to the waves, as in overfalls. Theres only one sencible option. Just slow the boat down. 8 knots is fine with mine. Now I have been known to have green water three foot deap on the deck and the window screen wipers being as much use as chocolate tea pots, thrashing away beneith the waves. It might be a bit slower for a while, but at least it's a damage limitation exersize and weve even put the kettle on!!

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Haydn