Rod rigging costs

[ridgy]

So I've re-rigged boats with 1x19 and because I take pride in boating at the possible lowest price I've always just taken the old rigging off and sent it somewhere like S3i to be copied and done it all myself.

I'm find myself considering a new (to me) boat that has rod rigging which I know nothing about. I've really no idea if it can be DIY'd in that way (can it be coiled?) so any ideas on ballpark numbers on a 35' boat? A J35 if it matters.
Can't find any prices online. Would I be at the mercy of a small group of rigging specialists?

 

[Keith 66]

If its any use, some years ago a friend rebuilt a Swan 43, it had aerofoil section rod rigging. When the boat was surveyed prior to sale the surveyor wrote the rigging off saying it was of unknown age & couldnt be relied on.
Faced with either a huge bill to replace it as is or a lesser but still large bill to replace it with 1x19 he was in a bit of a quandary over what to do.
I suggested he got it tested. He got design specs from Swan & we found a company who came to the yard & tested it with ultrasonic & dye penetrant, it was then given a swl test using a hyraulic winch & strain gauge. As it turned out the rigging passed with flying colours & was put back into service. Inspection & test was a fraction of replacement. You wouldnt do this with 1x19 but with the special stuff that boat had it was well worth it.

 

[matt1]

I've wondered why rope standing rigging hasn't filtered down to us mere mortals yet.

 

[lustyd]

It's because mere mortals can't be trusted with rope standing rigging. Pure strength is not the only consideration for something which will spend its life outdoors being treated badly and ignored for 10 or more years at a time. Stainless works well because it's really quite hard to damage and it doesn't really degrade other than rusting. Rope, by contrast, would have all kinds of wear issues and would need inspecting on a monthly basis to remain safe. It works for race boats because they are usually better looked after and the weight saving makes a difference to them. They also don't mind the increased costs involved. Nothing stopping you installing it though, it's just rope!

 

[dom]

I've wondered why rope standing rigging hasn't filtered down to us mere mortals yet.

It’s steadily coming and will in time most likely replace steel wire because of its many advantages.

 

[lustyd]

I'd like to see some evidence that it's even remotely on its way for standard cruising boats where chafe protection is a bigger deal than weight.

 

[RJJ]

I'd like to see some evidence that it's even remotely on its way for standard cruising boats where chafe protection is a bigger deal than weight.

Is chafe protection that big a deal though?

Couldn't you have a chafe protecting plastic tube where it counts? and / or a sacrificial bit with eye splice each end, so that you just replace a few feet every other year or so?

 

[Yngmar]

So I've re-rigged boats with 1x19 and because I take pride in boating at the possible lowest price I've always just taken the old rigging off and sent it somewhere like S3i to be copied and done it all myself.

I'm find myself considering a new (to me) boat that has rod rigging which I know nothing about. I've really no idea if it can be DIY'd in that way (can it be coiled?) so any ideas on ballpark numbers on a 35' boat? A J35 if it matters.
Can't find any prices online. Would I be at the mercy of a small group of rigging specialists?

Yes, very much so, if you want to keep having rod rigging. Depending on how you want to use the boat, you can however change it for heavier wire rigging (for cruising), or synthetic rigging (which should outperform rod rigs for racing). Unlike rod rigging, these can be done DIY (using swageless fittings) or sent off and to prefabricate one or both ends for cost reduction. Wire is a bit cheaper than synthetic (for DIY), longer lasting and more robust, but undoubtedly offers somewhat worse performance than synthetic, so it's up to you. With either option you may need to replace some parts, possible including the spreader ends, depending on what is currently there, which could add a lot to the cost.

Rod rigging isn't really all that popular anymore (excluding superyachts), as it is somewhere between the two above options in weight (=performance) but costs more than either and requires special machinery that most riggers won't have as it's not worth the investment for the small number of boats with rod rigs. It's significantly lighter than wire for the same strength (or about 35% stronger for the same diameter), but nowhere near as lightweight as synthetic, which is much easier to work with. It's as chafe resistant as wire rope, which is the major downside of synthetic rigging (along with creep, although there's rope rigging where that is much less of an issue now).

So if you want to keep the boat locally, ask your local rigger about rod rigging. If he says he can do it, ask for a rough estimate (sit down). As he probably said no, decide: If you want to cruise the boat, go wire, as that's sufficient, lasts a long time and you can get it done anywhere. If you want to race the boat, go synthetic and start watching some Youtube videos on how to make splices, tension and lash. Also Google for alternatives to the shockingly expensive Colligo fittings you will undoubtedly see mentioned there

Oh, and do take a close look at the existing rig to see how easy it would be to replace with a different type.

 

[lustyd]

Is chafe protection that big a deal though?

Couldn't you have a chafe protecting plastic tube where it counts? and / or a sacrificial bit with eye splice each end, so that you just replace a few feet every other year or so?

It depends. Chafe isn't important to a racer who may check and replace it often. It's incredibly important to me as I don't want to have to inspect the rig all the time. Chafe isn't just an issue at deck level, your sails might chafe near the top, or you might get a cut while rafting next to another boat. There are many ways cuts and chafe could happen that won't be a problem for wire. Same story for guard wires on my boat too, I like the idea of Dyneema and absolutely trust that it's strong, but I'll stick with wire because I can mistreat it without as much worry. Obviously both need looking after, but wire less so.

 

[dom]

Is chafe protection that big a deal though?

Couldn't you have a chafe protecting plastic tube where it counts? and / or a sacrificial bit with eye splice each end, so that you just replace a few feet every other year or so?

You certainly can! In fact pre-terminated high modulus covered aramid fibre sections are now widely available. The newer stuff can outlast wire too.

Another option is to use double braid sheathing with say outer black and the inner white so you can easily see a problem developing. Chafe can still be a problem though so one has to be careful say resting fully-battened sails against the stays and keep an eye on jib sheets etc., so prob a little while before it really makes inroads into the cruisy market.

Lots of composite rigging already in use on multihulls though where wire is increasingly regarded as the budget solution.

Edit: the trouble with a composite retrofit is that it can require quite a lot of work on spreaders, mast terminations, etc., so cost is usually prohibitive.

 

[Tanqueray]

We have Rod rigging fitted - it is no more trouble than standard wire and often less.
We 'Renewed' totally about 5 years ago in order to get a new 10 year ticket on the insurance - but a complete renewal does NOT mean that you have to buy all new rod and terminals. Rod only really fails at a couple of points (where it enters the fitting is an obvious example) - so we got what was essentially a new rig simply by purchasing a rod of the longest length in each size (12mm and 14/16mm for us iirc?) - you use the existing fittings and then use the long lengths of the old rod cut down to place the fittings at a 'new' point on the rod that has not been 'worked' - the old rod is is just chopped and new ends formed by the riggers.
Any decent rigger familiar with rod will advise and your insurance company will normally accept what they say.
It really was no big deal and if anything it was easier than replacing wire.

 

[Quandary]

I used to race occasionally on a J35 which had wire rigging, so rod is not absolutely standard for the class.

 

[ridgy]

I used to race occasionally on a J35 which had wire rigging, so rod is not absolutely standard for the class.

Having done some more research I think that they were originally built with rod but were frequently re-rigged with dyform when the time came.