Rocna Anchors acquired by Canada Metal Pacific

[jordanbasset]

Am glad the court case is over, even though you knew you were innocent it must have still been a worry for you for these past months. Well done

 

[Twister_Ken]

OTOH part of any due diligence is a review of any outstanding litigation so either CMP or its advisers were sloppy.

 

[Morven]

That is good news Grant, must be a load off your mind now!

 

[Colvic Watson]

Congratulations Grant, glad to hear though sorry for what it has cost you. Like many others I was bemused by the peculiar way in which the PR relaunch was handled on the forum with identities and the truth kept hidden and now it seems that it was ever thus in Rocna land.

 

[BrianH]

CMP have been made aware of the antics of the Bambury's but they still continue to employ Steve. Judging by the reports back from METS he is obviously flavour of the month with them and so they make their own rod for their backs.

Court action outcome:

Charges against me in the NZ Courts brought by Bambury were today dismissed.

So pleased for you at this outcome, Grant. Did you not have a counter claim (or have I been watching too much Judge Judy) for your salary that was still owing you? Not to mention compensation for harassment and stress.

At the start as a Rocna owner I was prepared to cheer on CMP and had the utmost wish for them to succeed. I also could see their dilemma of the large number of 420 shanks out there and fulfilling their possibly naive promise of replacement before knowing all the facts. But the news of Steve Bambury's continuing employment, even representing them at MEPS, has changed my positive opinion to one of contempt.

Looking forward to your further revelations now that the trial is over.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Bosun

You are quite correct we are only getting one side to the story. Part of that story is that more anchors than have been admitted were made from Q420 steel.

It would be easy for CMP to categorically deny the allegation. They can make that denial in one sentence. They could have RocnaONE, who was given special dispensation to post, to make the same denial in one sentence.

.

I wonder if anyone knows the precise number of 420 anchors made since, as I understand it, the change to 620 was ordered by Rocna but the 420 was bad quality control in China.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I wonder if anyone knows the precise number of 420 anchors made since, as I understand it, the change to 620 was ordered by Rocna but the 420 was bad quality control in China.

My understanding is that the factory in China has always done what it was told to do.

It was Steve Bambury who switched production to the 420 grade. When that was made public he switched to 620. All along they advertised it as Bisplate 800.

I, for one, will never buy anything bearing the Rocna name and, in view of their attitude since taking it over, I will never buy anything from CMP.

 

[FishyInverness]

I wonder if anyone knows the precise number of 420 anchors made since, as I understand it, the change to 620 was ordered by Rocna but the 420 was bad quality control in China.

If you fancy refreshing your understanding, i'd read Grant King's posts : #12, #401, #534, #650 and #746 from this thread, which all state what he's said all along, thus:

Grant has stated on numerous occasions, and appears to be getting exasperated at the number of times he has had to repeat, that the 420 steel was requested by Steve Bambury, and the Chinese produced what they were told to.

 

[smackdaddy]

The basic overview is that Bambury complained to the police that I had stolen an amount of around 5k USD from him during my last trip to Shanghai.

He claimed in his evidence that this money was for me to make cash payments to Rina for expenses incurred in obtaining certification.

The facts , backed up by emails and other written informations, are that he instructed me to bribe certain officals at Rina and at another manufacturing facility with this cash amount in order to gain certification. Upon my return to NZ he praised me for a job well done and announced to the world that certification had been obtained.

Bambury then discovered while at the Sanctuary Cove boat show in 2010 that full certification had not been issued and in fact only drawing and seabed approval had been given.

I know you'll release more details later - but are you saying that you knew the $5K was a bribe and you still gave it to the RINA officials (and others)?

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Grant has stated on numerous occasions, and appears to be getting exasperated at the number of times he has had to repeat, that the 420 steel was requested by Steve Bambury, and the Chinese produced what they were told to.

THanks for the list of Grants posts - there are too many on here to read them all. Thank heavens I swapped my Rocna for a Manson.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I know you'll release more details later - but are you saying that you knew the $5K was a bribe and you still gave it to the RINA officials (and others)?

It's pretty obvious that that's exactly what he is saying. Rightly or wrongly it happens and, in circumstances like this, it's very difficult to refuse a direct order from your boss. It's called the real world.

 

[smackdaddy]

It's pretty obvious that that's exactly what he is saying. Rightly or wrongly it happens and, in circumstances like this, it's very difficult to refuse a direct order from your boss. It's called the real world.

If it's an illegal order, it's not difficult at all. Granted, I know nothing about the laws in NZ, China, or Italy, but let's hypothesize for a moment:

If Grant did indeed give money to (bribe) RINA officials under orders from Bambury to obtain certification, then there appear to be legal issues far beyond the small claim just thrown out in the NZ court. Think for a moment what this means for RINA certification in general. The entire 150-year-old organization/system is now suspect.

If this is all true, the "real world" of reliable certification could get very nasty.

 

[estarzinger]

Think for a moment what this means for RINA certification in general. The entire 150-year-old organization/system is now suspect..

Smack, please realize that RINA did in fact not/never issue a full certification (they only gave the drawing and seabed approval). So, this was a FAILED bribe attempt. I would suggest it obviously reflects rather badly on holdfast/ROCNA but not on RINA.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I'm sure that it's not the first time that this kind of payment has been used and it certainly won't be the last. Whether you call them "sweeteners" , "incentives", "commisions", "backhanders", "deals" or "bribes" they all amount to the same.

However, let's not get diverted onto a debate about the ethics employed by Bambury. We all know it was wrong but the real issue is about the anchors themselves and what, if anything, CPM and the Smiths are doing to correct it.

 

[smackdaddy]

Smack, please realize that RINA did in fact not/never issue a full certification (they only gave the drawing and seabed approval). So, this was a FAILED bribe attempt.

I understand that they never issued the certification. But, if RINA officials did in fact accept bribe money at all, it seems there are some serious implications for RINA regardless of the outcome, no?

I know a lot of facts are missing here, and I'll hold off on hypothesizing any more until Grant answers, but to me this is a pretty stunning development in this long-running story.

 

[estarzinger]

I know a lot of facts are missing here

yes, too many missing to be throwing stones at RINA already. With the facts lacking, I think the fact that a full certificate was not issued (and thus they were obviously in fact not successfully 'bribed') should shield RINA from those stones until more is known.

I will note, just as an aside, that doing business round the world, there are many cultural aspects to 'bribes'. What is clearly a 'bribe' to an American or kiwi can be a normal 'facilitation fee' in many countries.

.....

 

[maxi77]

It's pretty obvious that that's exactly what he is saying. Rightly or wrongly it happens and, in circumstances like this, it's very difficult to refuse a direct order from your boss. It's called the real world.

Also he did say some of it was for guys in the factory. The regretable reality is that in some countries payments need to be made to get things done, from getting your passport stamped at immigration to big traade deals. In general these payments gain you no more favour than normal UK style treatment.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

If Grant did indeed give money to (bribe) RINA officials under orders from Bambury to obtain certification, then there appear to be legal issues far beyond the small claim just thrown out in the NZ court. Think for a moment what this means for RINA certification in general. The entire 150-year-old organization/system is now suspect.

I agree. RINA are massive. If this is true (and it seems a court may have tacitly accepted the £5000 was used to bribe RINA, plus Grant appears to have evidence) it's a big story.

And we were in at the beginning.

Exciting times.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I understand that they never issued the certification. But, if RINA officials did in fact accept bribe money at all, it seems there are some serious implications for RINA regardless of the outcome, no?

Of course it does! Grant says RINA took a bribe. As I understand it some kind of certification was given who's to say that wasn't influenced by the bribe? Even if nothing was given in return for the bribe it will still be a big story in the marine industry.

If true, I reckon this will make the trade papers for sure.

 

[Roberto]

Of course it does! Grant says RINA took a bribe. As I understand it some kind of certification was given who's to say that wasn't influenced by the bribe? Even if nothing was given in return for the bribe it will still be a big story in the marine industry.

If true, I reckon this will make the trade papers for sure.

there is rina and rina,

one is rina.org.uk

another one is

http://www.rina.org/en/index.aspx
I guess it's this second one referred to in the thread