Rocna Anchors acquired by Canada Metal Pacific

[GrantKing]

facts

My understanding is that the factory in China has always done what it was told to do.

It was Steve Bambury who switched production to the 420 grade. When that was made public he switched to 620. All along they advertised it as Bisplate 800. QUOTE]

You are correct in the first part Rigger but the change to 620 was made by me in late 2009 after I had discovered that 420 had been used from the start.

This had resulted in bent shanks and would have continued at a greater rate as sales were increasing worldwide.

Bambury did not want to pay the higher price as his constant beef was for me to try to get the cost prices down. He soon realised that he had no option but to accept the 620 and the slightly higher price from that point on.

The problem then was that there were still huge numbers of 420 shanks precut and ready for assembly and someone had to pay for them if they were going to be scrapped. Bambury did not to do that and so the change to 620 took more than 7 months and as each size shank ran out in 420 it was replaced with the new 620.

Because of the price difference the weekly production schedule was changed to include the shank material code so the costs could be clearly checked and followed by the accounts department.

In early 2010 the chinese manufacturer agreed to a review of costs and set the price for both 420 and 620 shanked units at the same price ( lower matching the 420 cost)

This then removed the need for the shank codes to appear on those sheets and Bambury was also becoming concerned that should anyone see those sheets then the lower grade would be questioned and exposed.

When I started quoting figures and specific details from 2010 sheets revealing exact numbers and sizes for either 420 or 620 it became obvious to Bambury that I had a copy of a particular sheet from May 2010. He thought that by having cut access to the office email server in June 2010 that I would not have retained any information.

Lets not also forget that every weekly meeting of the "rocna team" was minuted and followed up by pages of instructions and assumptions from Bambury along with the daily emails of plotting and planning the growth and problems of the "Empire".

It is this sheet that he used this year to announce that "some" were 420 and "some" others were definitely 620.

And yes it has always been advertised and promoted as Bis80 or 800mpa steel shanks exactly as Peter Smith demanded as critical to the design parameters of his anchor.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

there is rina and rina,

one is rina.org.uk

another one is

http://www.rina.org/en/index.aspx
I guess it's this second one referred to in the thread

Thanks for correcting me Roberto! Not quite such a big story after all.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Hi ********;

Thanks for touching base with us, and thanks for your feedback.

Canada Metal was well aware of the challenges facing Rocna prior to their acquisition of the license, and has been working hard to resolve the outstanding issues per the statements from our President John Mitchell at http://www.canmet.com/content/resources/documents/ROCNA MEMO.pdf and http://www.canmet.com/content/resources/documents/Rocna November Memo2011.pdf.

Any customers with concerns as encouraged to contact either the Master Distributor in their country or Canada Metal direct, as per the memo(s), and we will work with them to determine if their anchor is one of the affected ones, and arrange a replacement if they so desire.

You didn't mention if you are an existing Rocna customer. If so, and you have concerns, I encourage you to contact me for further details regarding your anchor.

Canada Metal has taken the policy of not responding directly on forums, as we have found that this is not an effective means of distributing information. Rather, we distribute information through the Canada Metal and Rocna websites, as well as through monthly publications, and of course directly to our customers.

Regarding the inability to bring up the Rocna website, I will pass your comment along to our IT personnel, but a quick check this morning shows that it is avaliable. Not sure why you were having difficulties.

We receive extremely positive feedback from actual Rocna owners, including from the Caribbean, who love their anchor and find they can now anchor confidently in hard or weedy areas where they had previously had significant problems with older style anchors. Canada Metal will work with our existing customers to ensure they are confident in the construction of their anchor, and to re-assure potential customers of the qualtiy of the currently produced product.

Please let me know if I can provide any further information.

Regards

Mark Pocock
Rocna Anchors, a Canada Metal Brand

.

 

[smackdaddy]

Thanks for correcting me Roberto! Not quite such a big story after all.

I don't know about that. These guys aren't exactly mom-and-pop. Here's a quick overview:

THE RINA GROUP

RINA S.p.A. is a company created by Registro Italiano Navale, a private body founded in Genova in 1861 by a number of economic concerns involved in the maritime transport sector.

RINA is one of the founding members of IACS (International Association of Classification Societies) and actively participates in technical, research and rule-making groups in different institutional contexts at national and international level.

RINA S.p.A. operates competitively in the market and offers assessment, control, certification and research services, in compliance with national and international rules, related to materials, design, technology, products and plants, as well as undertaking tasks entrusted by governmental bodies and other authorities.

Organisation and structure
The organisational structure of the RINA Group consists of the parent company RINA S.p.A. and other associated or subsidiary companies, whose business name and sphere of activity can be found in the Where We Are section.

The RINA Group has offices in 42 countries worldwide; the Head Office is in Genova and it has over 120 branch offices, 42 of which in Italy, and a workforce of over 1400 people.

If it were me, I'd stay lawyered up and make sure I had solid evidence of this bribery taking place (i.e. - evidence showing the RINA officials on the take, not Bambury calling for it). Otherwise, this could turn into a rock-and-hard-place situation very quickly. There's a lot at stake. And it's not anchors.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I don't know about that. These guys aren't exactly mom-and-pop.

Hmmmm, game back on, maybe.

There's a lot at stake. And it's not just about anchors.

I concur. If Rina are a large established standards body (and the blurb you just posted suggests they might be after all) evidence of corruption totally eclipses Rocna-metal-gate.

Truth will out, as they say.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

this could turn into a rock-and-hard-place situation very quickly.

Rock and a hard place, either Grant paid the 5 grand as a bribe or he nicked it.

My gut feeling is to believe Grant's version. I haven't read many of his posts, but I don't think he's lied yet has he?

 

[bob234]

Bob,

CMP have been made aware of the antics of the Bambury's but they still continue to employ Steve.

Court action outcome:

Charges against me in the NZ Courts brought by Bambury were today dismissed.

The basic overview is that Bambury complained to the police that I had stolen an amount of around 5k USD from him during my last trip to Shanghai.....

Bambury then discovered while at the Sanctuary Cove boat show in 2010 that full certification had not been issued and in fact only drawing and seabed approval had been given.

He then set about to remove me in the most underhanded and insulting manner possible....

He has done everything he can to suppress all of the evidence I have been sitting on since June 2010,....

Well done Grant. It's about time that a whistle blower came out the right side up.

Unbelieveable that CMP have not revised their position having been made aware of earlier activities. I hope it is just because they are keeping their powder dry!

Cheers,

Bob

 

[avb3]

This is the beauty of free enterprise. One party chooses to deceive its customers while another decides to capitalize on the deception and produce a better product. I wonder which one wins?

You noticed that too, did you?

I really am surprised that CMP has not wizened up to that fact that they need to answer questions, not avoid them.

Previous success in other products cut them a lot of slack, but after almost 3 months, the Rocna website is still full of misinformation.

The slack is just about worn out, and Rocnaone, you need to know that.

 

[bob234]

Of course it does! Grant says RINA took a bribe. .

I don't think Grant said that. I think he said he was sent over to China with the funds to bribe. He didn't say any bribes were accepted or even actually offered.

These things might actually have happened but I don't believe he has told us that they have. The fact that the certification didn't happen to the level hoped for suggests any 'bribing' didn't work.

Of course, 'bribe' funds might have actually been funds to oil the wheels, dinners etc as has been implied by another poster.

CMP are going to have to pull a hat out of the bag fairly soon if they are to be distanced from Holdfast's shady dealings.

Bob

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I don't think Grant said that. I think he said he was sent over to China with the funds to bribe. He didn't say any bribes were accepted or even actually offered.

These things might actually have happened but I don't believe he has told us that they have.

I think he says he paid a bribe. He was accused of nicking the five grand and he say's he didn't, he actually paid it as a bribe, as he was requested to do.

If that's not what he said (or not what happened) then I guess Rocna and Rina are off the hook.

Grant's visited this thread so he's clearly happy that several people have taken his words to mean the bribe was paid as requested and explicitly said so.

Here's the post:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3242261&postcount=774

 

[Hydra]

"Honesty" of RINA?

If Rina are a large established standards body (and the blurb you just posted suggests they might be after all) evidence of corruption totally eclipses Rocna-metal-gate.

Truth will out, as they say.

[edited by admin unless you have proof RINA were bribed to pass Erika, please can we stick to facts]. Just remember the tanker Erika, that broke in 2 and sank in 1999 after having been surveyed by RINA.

 

[youen]

Congratulation Grant,and many thanks to Yachting Monthly magazine to let us know all this story.

 

[FishyInverness]

The slack is just about worn out, and Rocnaone, you need to know that.

To quote a favourite film "I think they know I'm no longer their man."

Given Rum_pirates last post I suspect no-one here is going to hear from RocnaOne again (aside from possibly in a p/m) - CMP seem to have drastically reversed his remit (he initially fired onto the scene hero-style stating very clearly that a big part of why he's here is to enter the endless forum debates) when they realised that hard questions were being asked and they couldn't provide honest answers in the face of facts.

As Grant previously said, it's easier to be "a salesman" one on one and pour oil to an individual with sincere sounding words that can't be questioned by those in the public fora that know different.

 

[Elessar]

[edited by admin unless you have proof RINA were bribed to pass Erika, please can we stick to facts]. Just remember the tanker Erika, that broke in 2 and sank in 1999 after having been surveyed by RINA.

3 cheers for snooks - new user says something that could have the thread taken down - snooks takes the trouble to edit it

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

3 cheers for snooks - new user says something that could have the thread taken down - snooks takes the trouble to edit it

Well said, Elessar, and well done Snooks.

 

[bob234]

I think he says he paid a bribe.....several people have taken his words to mean the bribe was paid as requested and explicitly said so.

Here's the post:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3242261&postcount=774

I am not saying Grant DIDN'T pay a bribe. Nor am I saying he did. I am saying that people have leapt to more than one conclusion.

I don't believe he has actually said yet that he paid a bribe. He might have paid one, but actually he hasn't been expicit on that one - yet. (Grant has been very measured in what he has said and how he has phrased things based upon court limitations at each stage).

He said he was sent over to pay a bribe and when he came back he was congratulated for a job well done. That is not a statement that a bribe was paid. But it is explicit that Bambury believed he had paid a bribe.

Whether he did or not I am sure we will know for certain in time. (It could be that Grant had him believe a bribe was paid but that he - Grant had had enough by then and was turning whistleblower). The limited certification suggests there is more to that aspect than we yet know. As does the clumsy attempt to take Grant to court for 'theft' of the bribe funds which suggests bribes weren't 'received'.

So, referring to more than one post above, Grants statements do NOT explicitly say that RINA accepted a bribe or that he (Grant) paid one - yet.


Bob

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

So, referring to more than one post above, Grants statements do NOT explicitly say that RINA accepted a bribe or that he (Grant) paid one - yet.

I see your point, and I'm genuinely not totally discounting it. However, as I read it, Grant says he didn't nick the 5 grand, and the reason he didn't nick the five grand was that he used the cash as his employer told him to - ie he spent it on bribes to Rina employees & others. That's pretty explicit.

Since then several people have said they've taken Grant's words to mean Rina employees (and others) took the 5 grand in bribes from him and Grant, who has visited the thread since hasn't corrected us.

I wonder if details of the court case will tell us more, I'll try google.

 

[maxi77]

It may be a good idea to be some what circumspect about the use of the word bribe. It can cover everthing from a tip to corrupting the legal process and lots in between including a business lunch. In some countries informal cash payments 'off the books' are regretably normal and without them nothing happens. We do not know the real nature of the payments Grant made but one suspects from the open way he mentions it we may well be looking at stuff nearer the tip end of the scale.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I see your point, and I'm genuinely not totally discounting it. However, as I read it, Grant says he didn't nick the 5 grand, and the reason he didn't nick the five grand was that he used the cash as his employer told him to - ie he spent it on bribes to Rina employees & others. That's pretty explicit.

Since then several people have said they've taken Grant's words to mean Rina employees (and others) took the 5 grand in bribes from him and Grant, who has visited the thread since hasn't corrected us.

I wonder if details of the court case will tell us more, I'll try google.

No joy. Apart from the (totally irrelevant to bribery) assault in 2004 I've had no joy. Which might be my use of google, but is probably as it should be. If he didn't nick the cash it probably shouldn't be recorded anywhere.

 

[evm1024]

Exactly so

Do not even consider that we know the facts. Spending $5k on wine and dine is just being polite in China.

Intent is important. Money spent changing your partners minds is not always under the table or underhanded. In fact it is not thus in most parts of the world.