Rigger Mortice
N/A
In the words of our one and only Peter the Great........
The defence rests, M'lud
Peter Smith said:
The defence rests, M'lud
Rocna Anchors acquired by Canada Metal Pacific
- Thread starter Laura Nineham
- Start date
GrantKing
New member
stainless
There is a new Nordhavn out there blissfully unaware that his 150kg stainless Rocna is only 316 and has a laminated shank as well.
It was shipped from China to Nordhavn in Taiwan on the 27th of Feb 2010.
Rocna have it on their production schedule ( the one that they quote the 420 " mistaken use on in early 2010) but I am willing to bet that they have not notified Suncoast Marine that they sold him a 316 as opposed to a 2205 so that he could advise his customer of the weakness of his anchor and to replace it on his very very expensive and large new Nordhavn.
There is a new Nordhavn out there blissfully unaware that his 150kg stainless Rocna is only 316 and has a laminated shank as well.
It was shipped from China to Nordhavn in Taiwan on the 27th of Feb 2010.
Rocna have it on their production schedule ( the one that they quote the 420 " mistaken use on in early 2010) but I am willing to bet that they have not notified Suncoast Marine that they sold him a 316 as opposed to a 2205 so that he could advise his customer of the weakness of his anchor and to replace it on his very very expensive and large new Nordhavn.
Djbangi
New member
Grant King and laminations
Grant,
I am disappointed. You must have taken leave of your senses. Peter Smith has long been browbeating Manson for laminating their flukes - how do you dare suggest that Rocna laminate a shank,
If you do not believe me check here
http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/manson-supreme-anchor.php
But maybe laminating shanks are quite acceptable. After all if you can make shanks out of 420 Mpa steel why worry about lamination - its must only be important for flukes.
You will be telling us next that they laminate 420 shanks as well.
Its good to know that Peter has found someone who admires his skills as at least Canada Metals Pacific recognises genius when they see it. All those who want to buy a Rocna in the future will have every confidence in his expertise.
But make sure you rely on a man who happily condemns one company for lamination (and posts it on his website) and hopes you will never find out he has been doing it himself for years.
The only thing Peter Smith has not done yet is make an aluminium Rocna - watch his space?
Hypocrisy has no limits in this story.
Grant,
I am disappointed. You must have taken leave of your senses. Peter Smith has long been browbeating Manson for laminating their flukes - how do you dare suggest that Rocna laminate a shank,
If you do not believe me check here
http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/manson-supreme-anchor.php
But maybe laminating shanks are quite acceptable. After all if you can make shanks out of 420 Mpa steel why worry about lamination - its must only be important for flukes.
You will be telling us next that they laminate 420 shanks as well.
Its good to know that Peter has found someone who admires his skills as at least Canada Metals Pacific recognises genius when they see it. All those who want to buy a Rocna in the future will have every confidence in his expertise.
But make sure you rely on a man who happily condemns one company for lamination (and posts it on his website) and hopes you will never find out he has been doing it himself for years.
The only thing Peter Smith has not done yet is make an aluminium Rocna - watch his space?
Hypocrisy has no limits in this story.
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GrantKing
New member
disappointed?
Well dont be too disappointed yet, by the time the full story finally comes out you will be choking on your cornflakes and crying into your cup of tea.
The article hammering the supreme is typical of the hype and prose that started this whole expose' of his anchor problems.
All of the larger models were made with laminated shanks, its cheaper and the handskills in finishing the edges by the chinese workers was exceptional, something they were justifiably proud of.
Well dont be too disappointed yet, by the time the full story finally comes out you will be choking on your cornflakes and crying into your cup of tea.
The article hammering the supreme is typical of the hype and prose that started this whole expose' of his anchor problems.
All of the larger models were made with laminated shanks, its cheaper and the handskills in finishing the edges by the chinese workers was exceptional, something they were justifiably proud of.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
Grant could you explain the laminating process please? I would be most interested. I know for example that hacksaw blades (courtesy of "How Is It Made") have two types of steel forged together to make one composite steel blade.
Thanks,
BlowingOldBoots
Thanks,
BlowingOldBoots
Delfin
New member
Yikes, I didn't know that. Why do you think on the bending forces chart the MPa of the stainless was listed as 450? Were there many problems with them bending, or did people just buy them for bling?
Rigger Mortice
N/A
Grant will say if I'm wrong, but I think you'll find that laminating in this context is not particularly sophisticated.
Take two plates of steel. Place face to face. Weld edges together.
If you can only bend, say, 15mm plate you can put two plates together to make a 30mm thickness.
You can also make a cutaway in one of the plates so that, when welded together, you have formed a useful mortice into which the shank will be welded. Good, positive, accurate positioning with a larger surface for welding the shank to the fluke.
I think
maxi77
Active member
Grant will say if I'm wrong, but I think you'll find that laminating in this context is not particularly sophisticated.
Take two plates of steel. Place face to face. Weld edges together.
If you can only bend, say, 15mm plate you can put two plates together to make a 30mm thickness.
You can also make a cutaway in one of the plates so that, when welded together, you have formed a useful mortice into which the shank will be welded. Good, positive, accurate positioning with a larger surface for welding the shank to the fluke.
I think
I have seen CQRs made that way, scary in my opinion because you have no idea what is happening between the hidden surfaces.
Rigger Mortice
N/A
As the real CQR is made from forged steel I assume that the one you saw had been made up by Steve Bambury?
maxi77
Active member
As the real CQR is made from forged steel I assume that the one you saw had been made up by Steve Bambury?
Yes I should have said CQR lookalikes. I was just surprised that people actually bought them. My naval architect son's comments were unprintable.
GrantKing
New member
laminated
No forging involved, just place the two plates against each other, weld them together with a huge excess weld seam , then grind and polish the join back until it resembles a single piece edge.
No forging involved, just place the two plates against each other, weld them together with a huge excess weld seam , then grind and polish the join back until it resembles a single piece edge.
GrantKing
New member
450
450mpa is the tensile yield strength of 2205 duplex stainless, 316 is approx 205mpa tensile yield strength.
450mpa is the tensile yield strength of 2205 duplex stainless, 316 is approx 205mpa tensile yield strength.
Rigger Mortice
N/A
RocnaOne
And the replacement policy on the stainless anchors is....?
Or has somebody decided that they are fine after all?
And the replacement policy on the stainless anchors is....?
Or has somebody decided that they are fine after all?
youen
Member
If we trust Grant King and he seems to be right Rocna is dishonest.I dont understand why sometimes Rocnaone reply to my mail and why sometimes its Sarabande,how are they linked?
RocnaONE
New member
Since some of the details relating to stainless steel production, and other production decisions, have only recently been made known here and in other places, the only information I have for you is that the matter is presently under review at top level.
As soon as I can give a full reply, I shall do so.
As soon as I can give a full reply, I shall do so.
Rigger Mortice
N/A
That is really interesting as I had recently made exactly the same link.
The style of English, the vocabulary (one word made the link for me. A virtual pint to anyone who can identify the word!), Sarabande's occupation, and the farming references by both. There's a similarity.
I suspect that you've pinned him down.
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GrantKing
New member
stainless
Replacement policy???????
It was decided at Rocna HQ in 2009/2010 that as those who purchased and used stainless models didnt worry about anchoring as much as how much "bling" they had on display it didnt really matter and nobody would ever find out.
The profit on a stainless 150kg is HUGE and after all production of SS models were changed to China I negotiated a cost price reduction of an average of 60% on stainless rocna's. Did the retail price come down??? not by much that is for sure.
The safety margin in 316 SS is even less than the 420 used in the galvanised ones.
Replacement policy???????
It was decided at Rocna HQ in 2009/2010 that as those who purchased and used stainless models didnt worry about anchoring as much as how much "bling" they had on display it didnt really matter and nobody would ever find out.
The profit on a stainless 150kg is HUGE and after all production of SS models were changed to China I negotiated a cost price reduction of an average of 60% on stainless rocna's. Did the retail price come down??? not by much that is for sure.
The safety margin in 316 SS is even less than the 420 used in the galvanised ones.
GrantKing
New member
You could always ask Steve Bambury to give you the discussion papers one file, the production schedules, price lists and the interoffice memos between him and myself regarding the use of 316SS instead of 2205 and then you go about appeasing the many customers who purchased them at great cost for their vessels.
If he says its another lot of paperwork he does not have, or cannot lay his hands on , then I have multiple copies of each.
He can continue to duck and dive and avoid answering CMP directly over all of these issues but by now surely CMP are beginning to wonder what is in the closet waiting to jump out at halloween, and it aint just a pumpkin.
lwatson
New member
Rocna returns
For everyones information West Marine in San Diego have had very few returned out of the number sold, and another marine store suppling those going south from here will not handle Manson BECAUSE of the laminated blade. Futher the thickness of the shaft material on both the Rocna 20 and the Manson 44 is 5/8" unless my Made in China digital caliper is wrong.
For everyones information West Marine in San Diego have had very few returned out of the number sold, and another marine store suppling those going south from here will not handle Manson BECAUSE of the laminated blade. Futher the thickness of the shaft material on both the Rocna 20 and the Manson 44 is 5/8" unless my Made in China digital caliper is wrong.
Djbangi
New member
Numbers returned
A possible reason not many Rocnas having been returned is a lack of publicity, to know of the problerms you need to read specific forum and YM or PS. We have evidence on this forum that suggest anyone whose first language is not English has been left out in the cold. The WM notice was not a recall - so no or little urgency. My reading is WM implied they thought the anchors all OK - one hopes this thought does not come back to haunt them.
Bur Rocna has brought a whole new meaning to Due Diligence. I bet CMP never asked Grant King and he is the only one left with any credibility.
A possible reason not many Rocnas having been returned is a lack of publicity, to know of the problerms you need to read specific forum and YM or PS. We have evidence on this forum that suggest anyone whose first language is not English has been left out in the cold. The WM notice was not a recall - so no or little urgency. My reading is WM implied they thought the anchors all OK - one hopes this thought does not come back to haunt them.
Bur Rocna has brought a whole new meaning to Due Diligence. I bet CMP never asked Grant King and he is the only one left with any credibility.