River mooring to Med Marina liveaboard: The good, the bad, & the ugly?

[rustybarge]

I'm going to be moving from a alongside river mooring with no neighbours close to me, to The western Med somewhere between Gib to Lagos in Portugal. I have no previous experience of living in a marina.

What's it like with neighbours right next to you?

 

[sailaboutvic]

I'm going to be moving from a alongside river mooring with no neighbours close to me, to The western Med somewhere between Gib to Lagos in Portugal. I have no previous experience of living in a marina.

What's it like with neighbours right next to you?

We only use Marina for three months a year, in the 9 years we been back out we had some really nice once and there been some pain in the ass , lucky for us the only next door pain in the Ass was only onces .
Most no matter what country they come from are great and considered.
One good thing about Marina , if you don't like next door you can always move

 

[rustybarge]

We only use Marina for three months a year, in the 9 years we been back out we had some really nice once and there been some pain in the ass , lucky for us the only next door pain in the Ass was only onces .
Most no matter what country they come from are great and considered.
One good thing about Marina , if you don't like next door you can always move

One of my main worries is that the next door boat may be so close that you'll need to turn on the radio when using the heads.......lol.

What happens when you go into the cockpit for a nice drink and the neighbours are already outside on their boat?

Obviously one would want to anchor out a much as possible, but I imagine that sometimes it's too much effort or the weather is not suitable. An end of pontoon mooring would at least mean one side of the boat had an uninterrupted view, but I'm sure they must be reserved pretty quickly.

Overall how do you rate your privacy?

 

[sailaboutvic]

Well one of the problem we have is our timing , if there liveaboard around then there a good chance they will be doing maintenance, some of that mean making noise, so you have to give and take a bit you too at some time with be doing maintenance too , most will,stop early afternoon , not having to go to work mean they got the next day and the next day to do it.
For privacy some will go bow in which mean you away from the pontoon, we always go stern in , we find it easier to step off, and we feel we can get enough privacy , the disadvantages is people will stop and talk to you while you turning to work so jobs take a lot longer, good excuse to stop for a coffee,
We very socialable and it a good way to met new people. Ok there are times when you just want to get on.
People music one thing we never had a problem with , it normally kept down low and if not ask nicely and most will turn it down.
The worst I had with a fellow Brit and his steel boat was he wanted to use a grinder, now that when I put my foot down it not good news when you have a GRP boat , that the pain in the ass I was talking about , plus he had a dog we too had a dog and a cat at that time and he use to let his dog poo on the pontoon, there may time we cleaned it up because we didn't want other to think it was our dog.
As far as getting the end pontoon , we manage that once or twice without asking but as you say if it's a Marina where people go back time and time again they do book them up.
We was next to a French boat this winter liveaboard with three young girls on board , other then when they came home from school and at times play out side , you would t had know they was on there .
I wouldn't worry too much. Most are pretty sensitive.

 

[DownWest]

Been helping a friend with his boat in Minimes, La Rochelle. Very few of the boats on the pontoon look if they have gone out recently(I am being polite here) and the few that do are very jolly and nice. We help with lines etc and it is appreciated.
So, pot luck. But get out there and do it. All expériences are interesting, just in different ways ;o)

Just remembered the worst.. the last night of a Sunsail charter. We got back to the base as a bareboat, only to have the flotilla lot spend the whole night on a drunken noisy spree. Yelling and shouting about how they could not stop yet, as it was too early, all the way to the time we needed to leave for the Airport.
So, you might avoid charter bases ;o)

 

[rustybarge]

Well one of the problem we have is our timing , if there liveaboard around then there a good chance they will be doing maintenance, some of that mean making noise, so you have to give and take a bit you too at some time with be doing maintenance too , most will,stop early afternoon , not having to go to work mean they got the next day and the next day to do it.
For privacy some will go bow in which mean you away from the pontoon, we always go stern in , we find it easier to step off, and we feel we can get enough privacy , the disadvantages is people will stop and talk to you while you turning to work so jobs take a lot longer, good excuse to stop for a coffee,
We very socialable and it a good way to met new people. Ok there are times when you just want to get on.
People music one thing we never had a problem with , it normally kept down low and if not ask nicely and most will turn it down.
The worst I had with a fellow Brit and his steel boat was he wanted to use a grinder, now that when I put my foot down it not good news when you have a GRP boat , that the pain in the ass I was talking about , plus he had a dog we too had a dog and a cat at that time and he use to let his dog poo on the pontoon, there may time we cleaned it up because we didn't want other to think it was our dog.
As far as getting the end pontoon , we manage that once or twice without asking but as you say if it's a Marina where people go back time and time again they do book them up.
We was next to a French boat this winter liveaboard with three young girls on board , other then when they came home from school and at times play out side , you would t had know they was on there .
I wouldn't worry too much. Most are pretty sensitive.

I'm reassured by your experiences.

Am I correct in saying you can't book a specific place in a marina, the management could in theory move you to another area without notice? I'm really wondering if it's possible to move your place even if you have an annual 12 month agreement; how would they move your electricity bill?

If a private space suddenly becomes available can you just move in under your own steam?

 

[rustybarge]

Been helping a friend with his boat in Minimes, La Rochelle. Very few of the boats on the pontoon look if they have gone out recently(I am being polite here) and the few that do are very jolly and nice. We help with lines etc and it is appreciated.
So, pot luck. But get out there and do it. All expériences are interesting, just in different ways ;o)

Just remembered the worst.. the last night of a Sunsail charter. We got back to the base as a bareboat, only to have the flotilla lot spend the whole night on a drunken noisy spree. Yelling and shouting about how they could not stop yet, as it was too early, all the way to the time we needed to leave for the Airport.
So, you might avoid charter bases ;o)

I imagine that the french would be the worst sort of neighbour . We've just sold our little holiday house in the SoF, and IMO they have a very bolshie attitude to other people's welfare. Flotillas sound like pure hell!

Every lifestyle has its compromises , and I suppose being in a marina in a beautiful sunny climate is one hitch that has to be considered a worthwhile cost.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Been helping a friend with his boat in Minimes, La Rochelle. Very few of the boats on the pontoon look if they have gone out recently(I am being polite here) and the few that do are very jolly and nice. We help with lines etc and it is appreciated.
So, pot luck. But get out there and do it. All expériences are interesting, just in different ways ;o)

Just remembered the worst.. the last night of a Sunsail charter. We got back to the base as a bareboat, only to have the flotilla lot spend the whole night on a drunken noisy spree. Yelling and shouting about how they could not stop yet, as it was too early, all the way to the time we needed to leave for the Airport.
So, you might avoid charter bases ;o)

Not wanting to put myself out to get shoot by charters , what you said is nothing unusual, there are some good charters out there but most haven't any idea how to behave , very few seamanship skill, and they leave a mess especially the foalta, if they are not anchoring half a boat away, they playing load music and shouting at the top of their voices till the early morning,
But the OP is plainning to take his boat to an area where there very few if any,
Out of the whole of the med Greece is the worst for misbehaving charter.
Anyway most Marina will keep charter boats on set pontoon.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I'm reassured by your experiences.

Am I correct in saying you can't book a specific place in a marina, the management could in theory move you to another area without notice? I'm really wondering if it's possible to move your place even if you have an annual 12 month agreement; how would they move your electricity bill?

If a private space suddenly becomes available can you just move in under your own steam?

Most med Marina I came across don't alcate a berth I spend five years in Kos Marina in my second term as a liveaboard in the Med some years back, each time I entered the Marina the Marina boat would come out and put me in where their wanted me.
Saying that Ragusa in Sicily you may have heard off , liveaboard go back year after year and they will ask to be put back in the same berth which the Marina is happy to do .
If you thinking of Lagos or Marina bay in Gib the experience I had with both is they will put you where they can find a space.

 

[rustybarge]

Not wanting to put myself out to get shoot by charters , what you said is nothing unusual, there are some good charters out there but most haven't any idea how to believe , very few seamanship skill, and they leave a mess especially the foalta, if they are not anchoring half a boat away, they playing load music and shouting at the top of their voices till the early morning,
But the OP is plainning to take his boat to an area where there very few if any,
Out of the whole of the med Greece is the worst for misbehaving charter.
Anyway most Marina will keep charter boats on set pontoon.

This I think is what's attracted me to this cruising area; less mass tourism when compared to the Spanish Costas with the realitively peaceful Ria east of Faro , Cadiz and Rota coast up to Gib. I've been to Seville which I believe is possible to visit by boat, and I know Tavira and the neighbouring area reasonably well.

The plan would be to cruise between those areas and then winter in Portugal .

 

[GHA]

A large proportion of the boats in Algarve marinas must be empty most of the time anyway so fair chance you'll not have any neighbors , of if you do good chance they'll be fellow long term cruisers.

Or spend the winter on the hook up the Guadiana with the rest of them. Can't have been quite so much fun this unusually wet couple months but mostly sunny.

 

[jordanbasset]

In Gouvia marina you get your own designated berth, which is kept for you. We had some choice over the specific berth we had and you can change to another provided it is the same size and that it is available of course

 

[Yngmar]

Make friends with your neighbours! And if they're annoying or noisy, ask for a different berth. We've had pretty good luck so far, in Brighton I've made many friends amongst the other liveaboards and people who weren't living aboard were happy to have someone that can keep an eye on their boat whilst they're away. Same last winter in Albufeira, although there weren't many around, we still made some friends down the pontoon and the neighbours kept an eye on our boat while we were away and vice versa. Usually there's some exchange of expertise and skills too. It's a generally helpful and positive atmosphere.

One of my main worries is that the next door boat may be so close that you'll need to turn on the radio when using the heads.......lol.

Noise while using the heads isn't a problem, because any halfway civilized marina dweller will be using the shoreside toilets provided, at least for the big jobs, rather than illegally discharging their waste into the marina waters like an absolute pig :disgust:

What happens when you go into the cockpit for a nice drink and the neighbours are already outside on their boat?

You say hello and have a chat. Might end up drinking with them

Privacy is far lower than at anchor, but you get used to it. On the upside, it's easier to make new friends and instead of watching people mess up anchoring, you get to watch people mess up marina berthing, which is at least as entertaining (always leave a few fenders high on the side facing your neighbours).

For choosing a place for winter in the area, have a look at our recent blog post, where we did just that: https://sdfjkl.org/blog/2018-04-09-wintering-algarve/

Or better yet, do what we did and use the summer/autumn to visit them all yourself and form your own opinion. Don't miss out on the Rio Guadiana! Oh, and the Spanish Rias on the way down, especially the quieter ones between Coruna and Finisterre.

 

[rustybarge]

A large proportion of the boats in Algarve marinas must be empty most of the time anyway so fair chance you'll not have any neighbors , of if you do good chance they'll be fellow long term cruisers.

Or spend the winter on the hook up the Guadiana with the rest of them. Can't have been quite so much fun this unusually wet couple months but mostly sunny.

The Guadiana looks like a beautiful river. I've crossed over it on the way to Spain several times and it's a substantial size with what appears to be quite a fast flow.

There seems to be lots of choice between the Ria Formosa and the Guadiana to the East of Faro, and the more touristy lively west side up to Lagos.

 

[BrianH]

In Italy I have an annual berth that is at the end of the fixed pier (red mark on image below). So, with stern-to mooring, I only have one neighbour, who never sleeps aboard as he has a nearby holiday house and only spends the occasional weekend there. Actually, the end places are not so popular as they are further from the toilet facilities and moved by the wash from passing traffic.

A couple of agencies handle the rental arrangements and offer what they have available - plenty of choice this past couple of years - and you have that place for as long as you want to keep paying the annual fee for it. Get an unsociable neighbour and change the next year. That happened to me a couple of years ago when a group of three powerboat neighbours blocked the pier with their weekend party-tables and noise until late every Saturday night with their grill filling my boat with charred steak smoke. The next year they had moved on to another marina and I had given up the best mooring available - unfortunately it had already been allocated before I could move back but I still am satisfied with where I changed to.

The marina clientele are fairly divided by one-half Italian and the other half fairly evenly split between German and Austrian, with a sprinkling of Swiss, Scandinavians and others. Except for the Italian holiday season of August the vast majority of boats are unattended and statistically one can depend on very few neighbours, let alone bad ones. Winters there are hard and there are no full-time livaboards that I know of and only a dozen or so summer ones - of which I am one, when not off cruising.

 

[rustybarge]

In Gouvia marina you get your own designated berth, which is kept for you. We had some choice over the specific berth we had and you can change to another provided it is the same size and that it is available of course

Greece is on my bucket list. I believe there are literally hundreds of good anchoring places which would make cruising much more economical than the western med with it's expensive marinas.

 

[rustybarge]

Make friends with your neighbours! And if they're annoying or noisy, ask for a different berth. We've had pretty good luck so far, in Brighton I've made many friends amongst the other liveaboards and people who weren't living aboard were happy to have someone that can keep an eye on their boat whilst they're away. Same last winter in Albufeira, although there weren't many around, we still made some friends down the pontoon and the neighbours kept an eye on our boat while we were away and vice versa. Usually there's some exchange of expertise and skills too. It's a generally helpful and positive atmosphere.



Noise while using the heads isn't a problem, because any halfway civilized marina dweller will be using the shoreside toilets provided, at least for the big jobs, rather than illegally discharging their waste into the marina waters like an absolute pig :disgust:



You say hello and have a chat. Might end up drinking with them

Privacy is far lower than at anchor, but you get used to it. On the upside, it's easier to make new friends and instead of watching people mess up anchoring, you get to watch people mess up marina berthing, which is at least as entertaining (always leave a few fenders high on the side facing your neighbours).

For choosing a place for winter in the area, have a look at our recent blog post, where we did just that: https://sdfjkl.org/blog/2018-04-09-wintering-algarve/

Or better yet, do what we did and use the summer/autumn to visit them all yourself and form your own opinion. Don't miss out on the Rio Guadiana! Oh, and the Spanish Rias on the way down, especially the quieter ones between Coruna and Finisterre.

It all sounds workable with just a slight change of mindset. On the plus side you get beautiful winter weather in comparison to the British isles, on the minus side it might be necessary to swap places in the unlikely event that noisy neighbours arrive next door to your boat.

I suppose nightmare neighbours would be much worse in a house ; at least it's easy to move boat...lol.

 

[rustybarge]

In Italy I have an annual berth that is at the end of the fixed pier (red mark on image below). So, with stern-to mooring, I only have one neighbour, who never sleeps aboard as he has a nearby holiday house and only spends the occasional weekend there. Actually, the end places are not so popular as they are further from the toilet facilities and moved by the wash from passing traffic.

A couple of agencies handle the rental arrangements and offer what they have available - plenty of choice this past couple of years - and you have that place for as long as you want to keep paying the annual fee for it. Get an unsociable neighbour and change the next year. That happened to me a couple of years ago when a group of three powerboat neighbours blocked the pier with their weekend party-tables and noise until late every Saturday night with their grill filling my boat with charred steak smoke. The next year they had moved on to another marina and I had given up the best mooring available - unfortunately it had already been allocated before I could move back but I still am satisfied with where I changed to.

The marina clientele are fairly divided by one-half Italian and the other half fairly evenly split between German and Austrian, with a sprinkling of Swiss, Scandinavians and others. Except for the Italian holiday season of August the vast majority of boats are unattended and statistically one can depend on very few neighbours, let alone bad ones. Winters there are hard and there are no full-time livaboards that I know of and only a dozen or so summer ones - of which I am one, when not off cruising.

I really like italy,. The food is miles better than France and the people are much more open and friendly. The down side is all the red tape involved in even the simplest transaction. I'm led to believe that everything from a car purchase to a house sale has to be notarised at least in triplicate. Italy has got a reputation for high marina charges and ripoff agency fees: I'm not sure if it's justified or not.

 

[BrianH]

I really like italy,. The food is miles better than France and the people are much more open and friendly. The down side is all the red tape involved in even the simplest transaction. I'm led to believe that everything from a car purchase to a house sale has to be notarised at least in triplicate. Italy has got a reputation for high marina charges and ripoff agency fees: I'm not sure if it's justified or not.

There is a wide difference between mooring costs of the west and east coasts of Italy - the NE is even more reasonable.

I have never bought property or boats in Italy so I just know about living and renting there, which is no different than anywhere else I have lived - much more laid back, in fact, especially about ship registration if non-Italian ... but even then if less than 10m.

Below is the price-list for my marina (Darsena, Aprilia Marittima) in metres, annual and daily, prices in euros. All berths have unmetered power and water outlets included in the price. There is also a very pleasant swimming pool area in well-tended grounds amongst pine-trees.

Dimensione ...... Annuale ...... Giornaliero
7.00 x 2.50 ........ 1.500,00 ........ 30,00
8.50 x 3.00 ....... 2.100,00 ........ 40,00
10.00 x 3.50 ..... 2.580,00 ........ 45,00
12.00 x 4.60 ..... 3.960,00 ........ 50,00
15.00 x 4.50 ..... 4.200,00 ........ 55,00
18.00 x 5.00 ..... 5.280,00 ........ 60,00
20.00 x 5.50 ..... 6.420,00 ........ 65,00

Just beyond that basin is the much more upmarket marina, Punta Gabbiani with quite exclusive facilities and slightly higher prices - see here.

 

[jordanbasset]

Greece is on my bucket list. I believe there are literally hundreds of good anchoring places which would make cruising much more economical than the western med with it's expensive marinas.

There are are, although there are more harbours etc that charge for mooring than used to there are so many free anchorages that if you did not want to you really do not have to pay anything