rustybarge
Active member
Thanks for the link. Very good value when you consider the electricity is included.
I'm pleasantly surprised
River mooring to Med Marina liveaboard: The good, the bad, & the ugly?
- Thread starter rustybarge
- Start date
Thanks for the link. Very good value when you consider the electricity is included.
I'm pleasantly surprised
rustybarge
Active member
My only reservation is Greek is ' Greek' to me. I've always wanted to visit the classical sites of Argos Tiryns and Mycenae, and of course Sparta. Not too sure if it's possible by boat ?
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DownWest
Well-known member
Long time ago we went up the Gualdaquivir to Sevilla, passing through the Parc Natural de Doñana. Something like 50 miles. Tidal right up to the City, but the 'River' goes tound the city and there is a massive lock for the canal that goes through the centre. There are (were?) big shipyards down from the town, so every thing is on a large scale. We moored at the Real Club Nautico as it was secure with 24h guards.
Always been one of my favourite places and since they opened up the Auto route, a quick run from the Algarve.
Always been one of my favourite places and since they opened up the Auto route, a quick run from the Algarve.
rustybarge
Active member
Seville is a beautiful city with fabulous historic architecture . When I visited I never realised that sea going ships could access the city via the river. To visit by boat has to be on the bucket list!
I think I've made my decision to buy a boat and base it in Portugal and cruise up to Gib in the east, missing out the ghastly Costas with the exception of the lovely old town of Malaga, and then maybe onto Majorca which I have never visited.
There appears to be plenty of places to anchor out in that extended cruise area.
DownWest
Well-known member
Don't forget the tax free regime if you take up residency in Portugal as a retiree.
When we arrived at the lock, we waited some time for it to open, then happened to look behind us to see a very large ship coming up the river. Sharing the space with that made one feel very vunerable in a 32ft Mobo.
I gather from comments somewhere on here, that there are more facilities slightly down from the town, with pontoons and moorings for yachties.
When we arrived at the lock, we waited some time for it to open, then happened to look behind us to see a very large ship coming up the river. Sharing the space with that made one feel very vunerable in a 32ft Mobo.
I gather from comments somewhere on here, that there are more facilities slightly down from the town, with pontoons and moorings for yachties.
rustybarge
Active member
That 10 year tax free deal looks very attractive, might be worth investigating further.
Don't fancy sharing a lock with big commercial coasters , I imagine their attitude to private vessels would be utter distain and a lot of intimidation: a tiny bump could crush a small boat in seconds.
PlanB
Well-known member
Don't be too quick to write off all the Costas. Many experienced cruisers rate Duquesa as one of the nicest marinas around. I think it's certainly more pleasant than Gib. Not many places to anchor off in Med Spain, though. Malaga town centre is difficult to get a berth.
On your worries about marina living, I lived aboard in a marina for over 10 years and rarely experienced any of the things you are worried about. If there was a problem, it was usually a short term visitor and the problem soon went away. If not, a polite word usually sorted things. On the contrary, I thoroughly enjoyed the lifestyle and made so many good friends.
On your worries about marina living, I lived aboard in a marina for over 10 years and rarely experienced any of the things you are worried about. If there was a problem, it was usually a short term visitor and the problem soon went away. If not, a polite word usually sorted things. On the contrary, I thoroughly enjoyed the lifestyle and made so many good friends.
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KellysEye
Active member
The biggest liveaboard community is in Almerimar marina southern Spain, the view though is ugly concrete blocks of flats that were all empty in the recession. Also there is no security gate.
rustybarge
Active member
Thanks for your insights .
I'm beginning to think there are quite a lot of options available to liveaboards in the Med. I suppose if living in a marina gets too much it would be realitively simple to find somewhere to anchor in Portugal , but not so easy in Spain. I saw on the net that the west side of Gib is a no-anchor zone so that's out of the mix, and la Linea doesn't allow boats inside the sea wall where fishermen dredge for shellfish.
Overall the area looks like a good mix of unspoilt bits with the usual touristy developments which are unavoidable every where in the western Med.
rustybarge
Active member
Thanks for the Heads-Up.
I've never visited that part of the coast, but I've been further east to Xabia and Denia. My daughter taught English at the international school and we had an excellent Christmas lunch at the boat club a few years ago: we were the only English speakers amoungst a large contingent of spainish families. I have to say that I'm very pleasantly surprised how friendly the Spanish are in comparison to the xenophobic self-obsessed french.....lol. (hides under chair!)
Wansworth
Well-known member
La Linea ha become a very big drug hot spot with Columbians incharge and half the town on the payroll!
rustybarge
Active member
It appears to be a bit of a dump , admittedly from the only car journey I've made around the town. I wouldn't fancy walking around it after dark. The neighbouring town of Algeciras seems to be highly industrialised with the container port and the electricity generating power station , and I'd hazard a guess that the population is low paid and brings many social problems to La Linea as well.
Apparently fast ribs with big Ob's are banned in Gib because of the drug smuggling problems along the Spanish coast.
Yngmar
Well-known member
We're stopped in La Linea for a few days. Easy access to Gib seems to be its main selling point. Walking across the border involves a bare glance at ones passport and a wave, and on one occasion a peek into our grocery shopping bag. The marina is nice, but that's it. Walked into La Linea town yesterday. Not particularly nice, stumbled upon a good mercado municipal though. Quite a few dodgy characters sitting around near the border and in town. One started creeping after the first mate until he realized she was with me.
Despite this, the marina seems to be packed with a mix of liveaboards and broken dreams to rival Brighton, only more international. And a nice cruising crossroads flair. The constant 30+ knots wind aren't for everyone though, we splintered the rubrail trying to dock on a reception quay exposed to westerly swell (bad idea - just go find a berth) and there's regular shouting and high-speed maneouvering along with the occasional crunch followed by more shouting in the afternoon when the wind picks up. Several school boats seem to be using the conditions for training too. Made me a bit nervous, as we had an empty berth next to us.
Traffic in the bay is crazy. Ships anchored on both sides, ships moving into one of the several harbours around, pilots, police boats and ferries fast and slow and the AIS display looked like a bag of Haribo. Channel 16 was saturated with Tarifa trafico endlessly interrogating ships and one time Gib was hailing a yacht that had entered territorial waters asking to immediately state their intentions. Perhaps it;s because I didn't grow up in the Solent, but it wasn't my idea of a relaxing day on the water.
Many better spots on the south coasts both sides of the strait. Rota was okay and had a nice nature park on the dunes, although the town was mostly holiday apartments. Looking foward to Ceuta and Duquesa.
Despite this, the marina seems to be packed with a mix of liveaboards and broken dreams to rival Brighton, only more international. And a nice cruising crossroads flair. The constant 30+ knots wind aren't for everyone though, we splintered the rubrail trying to dock on a reception quay exposed to westerly swell (bad idea - just go find a berth) and there's regular shouting and high-speed maneouvering along with the occasional crunch followed by more shouting in the afternoon when the wind picks up. Several school boats seem to be using the conditions for training too. Made me a bit nervous, as we had an empty berth next to us.
Traffic in the bay is crazy. Ships anchored on both sides, ships moving into one of the several harbours around, pilots, police boats and ferries fast and slow and the AIS display looked like a bag of Haribo. Channel 16 was saturated with Tarifa trafico endlessly interrogating ships and one time Gib was hailing a yacht that had entered territorial waters asking to immediately state their intentions. Perhaps it;s because I didn't grow up in the Solent, but it wasn't my idea of a relaxing day on the water.
Many better spots on the south coasts both sides of the strait. Rota was okay and had a nice nature park on the dunes, although the town was mostly holiday apartments. Looking foward to Ceuta and Duquesa.
rustybarge
Active member
Oh Dear, there goes my Med dreams up in smoke...lol.
Actually that's why I asked the question in the first place.
DownWest
Well-known member
La Linea is a bit of a dormatory town for Spanish who work in Gib, as housing on the rock is at a premium.
As for broken dreams, back in the days when the destroyer pens were free to moor in, there were many boats that had made it that far South, but no further. When the port became commercial, qute a lot were unseaworthy and got towed out and scuttled in the straits.
As for broken dreams, back in the days when the destroyer pens were free to moor in, there were many boats that had made it that far South, but no further. When the port became commercial, qute a lot were unseaworthy and got towed out and scuttled in the straits.
rustybarge
Active member
I did notice a lot of social housing in Gib, maybe this is a hangover from the days Gib was a Navy shipyard. A woman interviewed on TV last week was afraid that all the online gambling companies would up-stakes and leave because of brexit; Gib would then be totally dependant on tourism & banking for revenue.
The property prices are similar to the SE of England; terraced town houses, if you could find one for sale, are about £500k. Flats are much more reasonable at about £250k- 300k for a two bedroom but who wants to live in a rabbit hutch up in the sky?
A boat looks like a very cost effective solution In comparison; of course you've got haul outs and antifouling and marina charges but that is still peanuts in comparison to Gib apartment rental prices.
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Graham376
Well-known member
Seville is a beautiful city with fabulous historic architecture . When I visited I never realised that sea going ships could access the city via the river. To visit by boat has to be on the bucket list!
I think I've made my decision to buy a boat and base it in Portugal and cruise up to Gib in the east, missing out the ghastly Costas with the exception of the lovely old town of Malaga, and then maybe onto Majorca which I have never visited.
There appears to be plenty of places to anchor out in that extended cruise area.
Problem with annual berths in Portuguese Algarve marinas is the cost compared to the Spanish Junta ones with the exception Vila Real but that's very exposed in bad weather and has the tide running through it. Albufeira seems to have reasonable winter deals and no doubt Stu will be along to comment. As you say, there are lots of places to anchor including off the beach in La Linea and dinghy into the sailing club at €5/day. Whilst we like the Guadiana in Spring and Autumn, it can get very hot in July and August and I certainly wouldn't leave a boat unattended there in winter rainy season. High season on the Ria Formosa can see 100+ boats anchored off Culatra and it's fun when the wind kicks up. Bruce's yard is good to live aboard in winter if work needs doing.
rustybarge
Active member
Thanks for the tip: I didn't reaise you could anchor off the beach in La linea. I also noticed on the chart that Gib territorial waters stop 100m short of the new road unning up to the gates at la Linea. Might be possible to stay there for the odd afternoon before getting moved on.
The biggest problem I see is trying to learn Portuguese ; it sounds like Russian to me with all those -usghh and -usghh and -lasghh sounding words. I do speak some french, badly, and last time I was in Portugal a lot of the older generation seemed to speak it as they spent a lot of time working abroad back in the 60's & 70's.
Overall the numbers look promising: cost, accessibility via Faro, easy going lifestyle, climate. From memory I wasn't so impressed with the cooking; Barbie Barbie Barbie and rotten fish! Lol.
DownWest
Well-known member
I had to learn the language in a hurry, but had school spanish. The grammar is similar, if the pronounciation is different. Nights with Hugo's 'Portuguese in three months' got me enough to run the farm labourers in around three weeks. They had a vocabulary of around 500 words and tended to speak in the present tense. As in: I am going to Faro 'yesterday' or 'tomorrow' as a qualifier. Local accents can be spotted even if only a few km away.
Fish was super fresh and very tasty off the barbie. The guy turned up at the farm gate every day with sardines or carapau (horse mackeral) for pennies. Tooted his horn on the way out, then you were waiting as he came back.
In Portimao, they used to sell the bycatch on the dockside. We picked up a crate of sardines for 5 centavos at near mid-day, when everbody went home. He just wanted what he paid for the crate.. 100 centavos to the escudo. When the euro came in it was fixed at 200 esc/euro. Very different world. The exchange rate went from 48 esc/£ to 250esc/£ while I was there and interest rates were about 18% if you had money, and 25% if you wanted to borrow.. Most people did not.
Fish was super fresh and very tasty off the barbie. The guy turned up at the farm gate every day with sardines or carapau (horse mackeral) for pennies. Tooted his horn on the way out, then you were waiting as he came back.
In Portimao, they used to sell the bycatch on the dockside. We picked up a crate of sardines for 5 centavos at near mid-day, when everbody went home. He just wanted what he paid for the crate.. 100 centavos to the escudo. When the euro came in it was fixed at 200 esc/euro. Very different world. The exchange rate went from 48 esc/£ to 250esc/£ while I was there and interest rates were about 18% if you had money, and 25% if you wanted to borrow.. Most people did not.
GHA
Well-known member
Easy to spot newly arrived expats in the Algarve, they'll be the ones asking for something a little too loud in really bad Portuguese. Easy to spot locals as well, they'll be the ones cheerfully replying in near perfect english
Learning the basics goes down well and is good manners but language isn't really a problem.