Retrieving the anchor is a pain

[Irish Rover]

I wonder if there’s another solution.
When off the snubbers the boat will veer because the anchor chain attachment point is in the centre of the boat.
Could you run a line over the emergency roller with a large ring or snatch block on the end, that the anchor chain runs through? Before retrieving the anchor you could pull it tight, so that the anchor pulls from the centreline, just below the beam, as you retrieve it, keeping the boat much straighter?

I'm trying to envisage how that might work especially in relation to deploying and retrieving the bridle. Would you leave the anchor hanging on this ring permanently?

 

[bignick]

No, you could pay the line out when you get near the end, so the anchor retracts into its normal stowage.

 

[bignick]

Does the anchor chain run through a ring on the bridle ropes? I did zoom in on your photo, but couldn’t quite see.
I’ve seen similar anchor stowage systems to yours on other cats, there must be some easy way of making it work.

 

[Irish Rover]

No, you could pay the line out when you get near the end, so the anchor retracts into its normal stowage.

Sounds a bit messy, to be honest and necessitates leaving the helm at a critical stage where the anchor is already off the sea bed.

 

[Irish Rover]

Does the anchor chain run through a ring on the bridle ropes? I did zoom in on your photo, but couldn’t quite see.
I’ve seen similar anchor stowage systems to yours on other cats, there must be some easy way of making it work.

The bridle is attached to the chain with a snap shackle which has to be manually attached/detached each time. This is not a big issue in itself as leaving the helm to do this is not an issue as the anchor is already set. On my previous 34' powercat I could easily see the anchor roller from the flybridge helm and was able to see the angle of the chain and adjust accordingly.

 

[Davy_S]

I've frequently seen these used by smaller boats to recover an anchor but I'm struggling to see how it would help me in the situation I described. Are you suggesting I motor on out over the anchor and drag it far enough to raise the anchor, then turn around and recover from the surface?

No, my thoughts were when you released the anchor and reversed, you would see at once where the chain is because the buoy would be visible, same when you recovered the anchor, the buoy would always be visible on the surface, i see now that it was not a good idea because of the position of your anchor, it would mean that the buoy would still be hanging underneath the hulls, sorry about that, but you have a great boat but a strange anchor set up.

 

[simonfraser]

'the forward camera doesn't help - it sees the windlass but not the anchor roller'

move the camera so it shows the roller and direction of the chain ?

 

[bignick]

If I’m understanding you correctly, when retrieving the anchor, you wind in the first 15’ of chain or so, when the snap shackle on the end of the bridle comes up through the hatch. You then detach the snap shackle from the anchor chain. From then on the anchor chain goes from the windlass, through the hatch, down to the anchor. This is when the boat starts to veer. Is that correct?

 

[Irish Rover]

'the forward camera doesn't help - it sees the windlass but not the anchor roller'

move the camera so it shows the roller and direction of the chain ?

Correct. It helps when I have another person at the windlass. I can see generally what they are doing and interpret hand gestures if necessary. There's not enough adjustment on the camera to see to anchor roller. Even if there was, I don't think I'd see enough to determine the direction of the chain. This is a close up view of the anchor roller taken just now with my phone and less than a metre from the roller. The fixed camera is overhead and I don't think it would see even this much

 

[Irish Rover]

If I’m understanding you correctly, when retrieving the anchor, you wind in the first 15’ of chain or so, when the snap shackle on the end of the bridle comes up through the hatch. You then detach the snap shackle from the anchor chain. From then on the anchor chain goes from the windlass, through the hatch, down to the anchor. This is when the boat starts to veer. Is that correct?

Yes

 

[bignick]

Could you use an anchor marker buoy? That way, you would know where the anchor chain goes to.
There is always the risk in a Greek anchorage that some numpty comes and ties off to it though.

 

[Poignard]

Could you use an anchor marker buoy? That way, you would know where the anchor chain goes to.
There is always the risk in a Greek anchorage that some numpty comes and ties off to it though.

I suggested that but he doesn't seem keen on the idea.

Certainly worth a try, in my opinion.

 

[noelex]

I think your best option is a camera to specifically look at the anchor and chain. Most of the Balance catamarans (if my memory is correct) have such a camera installed. You could take a look at what hardware they have used and where the equipment is mounted. Presumably the manufacturer has sorted out the bugs by now.

A larger windlass has been suggested. This would also work for most conditions, but it would need to be a large unit to have enough power to consistently pull the boat forward without using the engines, something that is not normally recommended. I don’t think it would be practical to fit such a model. We fitted a 4000 lb commercial windlass to our current boat. I was surprised how much bigger and beefier it was compared to the only slightly lower capacity 3500 lb recreational unit we had on our old boat.

A large anchor windlass is also a great asset if you are anchoring frequently. It has made life much easier on several occasions when our anchor chain has become tangled with debris. So there are other benefits to this change, but you need a large amount of room to fit this type of windlass. With your extra windage I think you would need at least a similar size windlass to our model for long term reliability (if you want to pull the boat forward without using the engines). The camera is going to be an easier solution.

Good luck. I can imagine this is a frustrating problem.

 

[Irish Rover]

Could you use an anchor marker buoy? That way, you would know where the anchor chain goes to.
There is always the risk in a Greek anchorage that some numpty comes and ties off to it though.

See #10 and photo at #49.

 

[bignick]

Perhaps an iPad connected to a GoPro would tell you if the concept works?

 

[Irish Rover]

Perhaps an iPad connected to a GoPro would tell you if the concept works?

I actually played around with a GoPro and 10'' tablet today from different positions focusing on the anchor roller, but it was of little value, possibly because the target area is small and dark compared to the positions of the camera. I didn't have the means to secure the GoPro under the bow but I'll have a go at it in the next few days when I have help on board. My GoPro is a bit old - Hero 5 - so maybe a newer model might give better resolution.

 

[B27]

Two fundamental problems.
1) the hawse is badly located, so the rode does hold the boat pointing the right way way without a bridle actually fully working.
2) you don't have fine enough control of the engines to keep the rode lightly tensioned or slack.
Arguably thirdly, you don't know the relative positions of anchor and boat accurately enough.
And fourthly, the hawse design is not tolerant of the rode being anywhere other than directly forward of the hawse.

I have a good friend who had vaguely similar problems, his solution involved using a Fortress anchor and not using the hawse or windlass in many circumstances.

Would an anchor watch app with a top-end GPS be accurate enough to allow keeping the boat pointing at the anchor until the rode was vertical enough to just break the anchor out with the windlass?

Other than that, I can only think of using some kind of snatch block under the front beam, so the rode steers the boat whenever there's tension on it, and protecting the surrounds of the hawse with stainless or may heavy HDPE or similar?

I suppose some sort of 'tripping line' arrangement so you could un-set the anchor and winch the anchor towards the boat rather than v/v might work?

Other than that, 'solutions' might involve thinking about the transmission or even auxiliary power/thrusters or whatever to facilitate fine control of the boat.

I see it at high risk of getting very messy if you need to weigh anchor when the wind and chop has suddenly got up.
I don't think a cctv view of the problem is actually much of a solution.

 

[Poignard]

A boat that has a minimum speed under power of 3.2knots must be a bitch to handle in some situations.

Might another, albeit expensive, answer to the problem be variable pitch propellers? Always assuming they could be fitted to this boat.

 

[dunedin]

A boat that has a minimum speed under power of 3.2knots must be a bitch to handle in some situations.

Might another, albeit expensive, answer to the problem be variable pitch propellers? Always assuming they could be fitted to this boat.

I suspect that most medium sized motor boats idle as fast or faster than that.

 

[noelex]

I found a photo (it is not mine) of the view taken by a Balance catamaran’s "anchor" camera.

See here:
Balance Catamarans