Retirement

[jflucas]

We are both 56 and plan to retire during the next 12 - 18 months. The dream is to buy a boat and live in sunny climates. The plan is buy a boat with the following spec :
Hull to be aluminium or steel on the grounds that it will withstand a knock aesier than fibre glass
Rig to be cutter and ketch, logic being that 4 smaller sails will be easier to handle than 2
Size to be circa 50 foot, we like space and will have kids/grandchildren on board regularly.
Preference for centre cockpit
Age is immaterial so is condition as I hope the price will reflect this.
The funds available will be about £100k.
We both plan on doing this and appreciate there is a learning curve icluding more experience and exams (we both have some, but we are not experts)
Any advice or comments would be appreciated, there is plenty of time.
Thanks from John & Diane Lucas

 

[chippie]

Congratulations on having your lives organised enough to retire at 56.
Quite a few pacific cruisers choose steel for the reasons you have outlined-it can survive a coral bump where other materials wouldnt. I am not so sure about aluminium.
In my opinion more exams wont make you a better sailor ,more sailing will.
What sort of boat do you sail at the moment?
Are the grandkids moving to sunnier climes too?

Good luck with the adventure.

 

[heerenleed]

Good for you...

I wish I could retire. But at least some 9 more years of working will be required fore i can expect a resonable income. But on the other hand: we already live aboard. We used to sail a Nicholson 35, and when we decided we wished to move aboard and therefore needed more room, we soon found that we wanted another Nicholson and now we own a Nic 48.

I do appreciate your reasons for wanting steel. Aluminium would be out of the question for me, because it requires attention all the time. Imagine you drop a steel screw into your boat. You MUST find it. If you don't, you will have a hole corroded into your hull. And fiddling around with anodes all the time qhen you are moored close to a steel boat does not appeal to me either.

I think GRP might do the job for you as well, provided it is not a very modern French boat, which is built for speed on flat waters and not for safe and comfortable seakeeping. Our Nic is heavy enough and would probably survive a collision with a floating container. Also, as we used to own steel boats as well, the permanent fight against rust on a steel boat does not really appeal te me either.

I think your idea about rigging is correct. Our Nic is a ketch, although not a cutter-ketch. The genny is still managable, as the main mast is, of course, much lower than on a sloop of the same size. Our Nic is a real ketch. I mean that the mizzen is not there just for show, it is a sail you need. This is important, as it will also permit you to use headsail and mizzen only in a blow, without the need to reef. Very comfortable, and the balance of the boat is still ok. Mind you, we also sail short handed always (just the 2 of us) A proper ketch also has the possibility to fly a mizzen staisail. For the extra drive in light airs, without the neccessity to fly a Spinnaker. (perish the thought, it would need to be very large to be effective on such a heavyweight and not very managable between the 2 of us)

Do choose a boat that has enough storage. And a heavy one too, as you don't want the weight of your luggage affect the sailing properties of the boat too much.

Look at the tanks. We can carry 1200 litres of water which we use up in two weeks. Of course, we shower every day and don't save any water as we are always near a hose. But we also do not have a washing machine on board, so we would use more water if we would do our washing on board. The dishwasher saves a lot of water. It once broke down and went away for repairs. During that week we used much more water and had to fill up the tank three days earlier than planned.
It is very important to have sufficient water if you live aboard. Especially inhot climes.

Try the settees properly. Once we almost bought a big boat, but found out just in time that the settees were very uncomfortable. Don't ever pay any money for a boat on which you can't sit properly. It sounds rediculous, but many yacht designers have not considered this as an important issue.

In general I would think that your budget is ok. Don't spend it all buying the boat. Someone once said to me: it will take a year and 10% of the value before the boat is reallyh OK. If you buy older and cheaper, you might need much more than a year and cetrainly more than 10%.

When we bought our Nic48 she was in Greece and very unloved and neglected. We then knew: it will take 5 years and some 30%, but after that we shall have a perfect boat. This is going to be true. We have now entered year 4, and we are replacing the teak decks which had been mistreated with the hig-pressure water hose. Next year we shall repaint her and refit the masts, and then it's back to a normal maintenance schedule. In other words: she will be as good as new.

Good hunting. If I can be of any more help, just let me know.



Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands

 

[Guest]

Good idea to retire early and sail in sunny climes.
Re the boat
It is really difficult to get it right the first time.

I largely agree with Heerenleed.

However I think 50' seems to big.
and I would avoid aluminium and steel.
Heavier designs and cutters/ketches are good.

As most peoples ideas evolve with experience maybe you buy a popular (resaleable)
production yacht, if you like it great if not you can sell and move on to your next ideal boat.


cheers

The Lash

 

[gonad]

good grp does not have corrosion problems like steel or alu.older boats are generally heavily laid down and I'm sure anything that I might hit in the future will suffer more than my 28 year old. TOTAL headroom is my first priority for living aboard.Experience is more important than pieces of paper.Join the club no further than 35N nor 35S. 100% sun.jon
P.S. you need loads of storage space.Amazing what some bigger boats have not got .

 

[ponapay]

Agree that you will be lucky to get the right boat first time, and with Heerenleed re spend on older boats.

Have a look at a Nicholson 38, excellent sea boats, ketch rigged, loads of storage, good tankage, sails well, can't motor backwards, has wheelhouse and is very comfortable.

Good luck in your hunt

 

[hutch]

You are going to get lots of varying answers. Everyone has their own ideas! A big factor depends on how far you are going to sail! I can only relate my own experience - maybe not too dissimilar to what you want to do. I am in the same age range as you!

I bought a 7 year old grp 50 plus foot sloop which I have now had for four years. It cost a tad more than your budget. Couldn't find anything I liked or without major problems at around £100,000. We started loooking at 45 footers but found them too cramped for our purposes!

I have also spent at least another 15% on renovations, replacements, etc. She has a big powerful rig on her - the mast is 20 plus metres! But I have no problems sailing her virtually single handed on inshore cruising - with the assistance of a roller furling headsail, electric in-mast furling main, cruising chute in a sock and autopilot. She who must be obeyed enjoys the sunshine whilst I toil. She takes the wheel when we raise the anchor! We keep the boat is Thailand - have been there a couple of years now. Most of our sailing is done during the north east monsoon - Nov through to April. Usually go out for 5 days to a week at a time. We regularly make the passage down to Langkawi - 140 miles. We live aboard full time except for three months in the summer when we visit family and friends in Europe. Lots of friends have visited! Longest passage to-date - 2000 nm. Future plans - will maybe take her round to the Gulf of Thailand next year then return to Phuket - 1,000 miles each way. Maybe in 2004 will go to East Africa. I have no desire to circumnavigate and basically want to stay within 10 deg N or S of the equator. I have no regrets!

Have a hit a few logs - one large one - made a hell of a noise - but no damage at all, just lost a bit of antifouling. Mind you the hull is very think - she is not a plastic fantastic!

My advice - buy as big as you can - it makes a difference when you are living aboard. Comfort - and space - is essential! Don't worry too much about experience. That will come quickly, especially if you select a benign area to start initially. You can always get experienced crew (friends or delivery skippers) to assist with longer passages until such time as you are confident - as well as assisiting others yourself - a great way to gain experience! This is how I have been getting my experience. Also through racing - on someone else's boat! There are some great regattas in that part of the world.

With the budget you have in mind, I think that you are going to have to do a lot of work on the boat. GRP is much easier to maintain. Steel might be more secure but I don't fancy welding work and all that hassle about ensuring no chips to the paint. Aluminium - have a friend with an OVNI and he doesn't seem to have the sort of problems others have mentioned as a major concern. Whatever figure you come up with to upgrade, renovate, recondition, for contingencies, double - no better yet triple. I have replaced all standing and running rigging, instruments and autopilot, rewired the distribution panel, replaced the refrigeration system plus lots more. Bought a Spade anchor - fantastic and much better than a CQR, fitted an auto prop, great for motor sailing, etc. My biggest regret/mistake - teak decks. They are a real pain in the a... Will have to recaulk or replace them. Very nice to behold but all that extra weight as well. And hot as hades in the tropical sun. About the only thing I haven't had to touch is the engine, a Perkins 4.236M, although as a safety measure have changed all the heat exchangers. Will overhaul it completly in the not too distant future.

I personally don't like ketches - too much clutter and I like the idea of a clear aft deck. Centre cockpit could give you two good sized cabins or if a charter layout at least separate ends of the boat for the family.

I also know of a 47 foot centre cockpit steel sloop owned by a friend which is on the market. Price maybe within your range. He looked after it well then - two years ago when he last sailed her. I was sort of interested when I was looking but time and place were wrong. It is I believe laid up in the South of England somewhere. He sailed the boat from Australia to the West Indies and then back to UK over a five or six year period. Did a lot of chartering in Asia, the Mediterranean and the Caribbean- for that the boat has to be kept in good condition. Let me know if you want to pursue.

Go for it and good luck.

 

[Sinbad1]

It is essential to understand that whatever boat you choose it will need updating and fitting to suit your abilities and requirements. This is a slow process and will take a good part of 3-5 years (dependant upon use). If you are planning to retire in 18months you should have your boat already or you will spend the first couple of years of your retirement sorting it out.

Also, if you can not take your time and manage your own and others work on the boat, it will become VERY expensive as you will rush the work, get it wrong and be paying boatyard rates for it all.

I agree with the other comments above. Go GRP and older models where they used heavy lay-up.

The most important requirement on any modern cruising vessel is the electrical system. Budget to rip it all out and start again for a complete 12/240 volt rewire through heat sensitive trip switches and a battery monitor. Without this you will spend your cruising life looking for blown fuses and associated faults.

Have fun.

 

[ccscott49]

50 foot, ok, but a little smaller would also be OK, say 46-47. Steel or aluminium, steel. hmmmmm.....OK,but fairly high maintenance, to keep looking smart. Ally, no not for me very dangerous corrosion problems, in a cruiing boat. Wood hmmm... I manage fine, but not for everybody, Plastic, hmmmm.... not for me, but very good strong boats are around, especially ones which have already been treated, properly! Good luck, I'll be the same age when I retire in a few years!

 

[AndrewB]

What is your experience?

Forgive me if you have been sailing for yonks and you've both tried and know you enjoy blue-water cruising.

But if you haven't, be careful. A sailing retirement is a dream for many, but I've known of a fair number of people who have jumped in the deep end but become disillusioned quite quickly. There have been those who have regretted giving up their job too soon, and those who missed their grandchildren - as well as those who just plain didn't like sailing.

Your choices all sound reasonable, though like others I'd think of a steel or GRP yacht rather than aluminium - but you won't get a decent 50' GRP yacht in your price range, so it sounds like either smaller or steel.

Bear in mind there is a lot of maintenance in a 50' yacht, specially older ones. At that size it would be too much of a handful for two people without all sorts of mechanical and electrical systems. These will need regular servicing, specially when they are being used intensively in a salt-water environment. If you plan to keep on move, or need to keep running expenses reasonably under control, then essentially you must do much of the maintenance yourself.

So don't over-commit yourself, make sure you have a fall-back plan B.

 

[Guest]

Re: What is your experience?

i am sure that much of what has been said so far is correct for the type of sailor and type of use concerned.

You need to think realistically about how YOU will use the boat in practise. Will you live aboard, in which case room is important. Will you use marinas in which case you need perhaps need to reconsider size. Are you good at diy? Repairs are a major issue for any distance sailor, and old boats ned more looking after. Are you fit? The size of boat relates to the load on fittings, ropes etc. Are your finances robust. Big boat = big repair bills when they come. Do you want a large boat, with all the costs and handling disadvantages during 50 weeks so that you have lots of room for the 2 week visitors.


In short, dont fall into the trap of buying a big old heavy 50 footer, if you are going to use the boat as a marina based med cottage. Dont equip for the southern ocean if you're not going there.

And dont dismiss out of hand the possibility of buying a new BenBavJan. (Dont have one myself so I have no axe to grind) Yes they might not be the ideal choice for the southern ocean, but if you want room for visitors, new kit which will need less maintenance, modern facitities, easy handling - there is a lot to be said for them. Or consider a multihull.

 

[Tyche]

I wish you well, in your planning, it is worth keeping in mind long term budgets, 50ft is big for permenant live aboard and your costs paticularily those of Marinas go up disproportionally to the size. Also a lot of better locals are possibly out of use due to depth and other restrictions.

As for sunny climes I left South Africa in May 99 and came up to UK via Brazil (the best) and the Caribbean spent a year in UK then of to the Med November last year I was so cold I fled down to Canaries for the winter, check out www.weatheronline.com for a good view of yearly averages for where you would like to go and good luck. Me I would see how a 42 footer feels for space first.

 

[alan54]

good time to retire my thoughts exactely. We bought a steel suncoast 5 years ago with a view to retire. but plans can change as ours did. We think buying the boat you want with a max of two years to go is better. Yes I agree you always need time to change the bought and probably get it up to what you want but half the fun is having the money and time to do it, especially if you are a bit of a DIY person. Where you want to sail , how you want to sail to me is the most important. Unlike olin stephens some of us to sail to weather and then you you need 50`steel and comfort. if you like DIY then you can keep costs down but as we know marina cost are the biggest drain on the pocket. and if you spend some of the initial cost buying the right well equipt boat in good order this is a good saving.
My wife and I bought one of only 6 Suncoast 48 dutch built steel ketches with certainly not too many regrets. Steel is good if built and maintained well. certainly it gives you a great sense of safety. We don`t beleive maintaining the deck rusts spots is a chore with a bottle of nice wine on a sunny day !!
unfortunetly we ARE selling due to my redundacy and our life change. She is a fine off shore steel ketch presently lying in Lagos and we would let it go for a paltry 55K we recently spent 15k on top side paint job and new electrics.
regards,
alan and Sue

 

[tcm]

Re: shantooti

altho i don't knowif the boat is for sale, you should look at
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.shantooti.co.uk>http://www.shantooti.co.uk</A>

This gives an excelent listing of the setup, gear and fitout of an ocean cruiser. Within you budget too, I beleive, and close to spec.

 

[oldsaltoz]

G’day John & Diane,
Congratulations and welcome to the wonderful world of live aboard cruisers. I have sailed most of my life and retired 4 years ago aged 55.
My first task was to complete the refit of my boat; and this took the best part of 18 months, with only 100 hours to go a bloke made me an offer and I sold her. He then paid me to assist him in finishing her off, this took another month, and she came up a treat.
Since than I have been looking for a suitable replacement; the message here is that you should be well down the path of deciding just what you plan to do, what space you need, what sort of berth you plan to keep her in, marina or anchor, the list goes on and on. The best advice I can give you is to climb onto as many boats as you can and if at all possible sail on them, speak to as many owners as possible to get a feel for the running cost, comfort, advantages, draw backs, seaworthiness and so on.
From a maintenance view timber is the most time consuming, steel would have to be next, followed by aluminium then timber / epoxy strip planked, with composites such as foam and balsa next, fibreglass being the least demanding. However if you do decide on fibreglass, avoid boats built during or just after world oil shortages such as 1974 and 1985, the resins produced were not the best and the risk of osmosis is higher.
Have you considered multihull sailing? Very comfortable and stable, loads of storage space and room for all the family and friends; fewer steps, larger entertainment area, less draft, faster under sail or motor, can be run onto the beach between tides for fun, a wash down or below waterline maintenance at very little cost.
I only mention this because none of the posts to date have broached the subject, and I would be the first to admit I was one of those who used to say “a cat is not a real sailing boat” but like so many others I have been converted. A 40 footer would provide you with more space than a 55 foot monohull.
Just a thought, I will keep looking because I know my boat is out there, meantime I’m having a ball assisting others with deliveries and even getting back into some racing.
I wish you both the very best in your search for that perfect boat and the many years of cruising ahead.

Avagreatretirement Old Salt Oz……

 

[snowleopard]

multihulls

having just lived for a year on a 40ft cat i second that, space, seeing where you'fre going and lack of roll in anchorages with swell are the main attractions, 15 days to cross the atlantic is good news too.

 

[Guest]

Depends where you're going? If it's world-wide, then steel is good. If you're looking at the Med then GRP is no problem. The main thing is to pick a boat that you can handle - none of us is getting any younger! A 50 foot boat in a blow is handful for 2 of you. cutter rig is good - centre cockpit - think about the extra height - and look carefully at the freeboard from the water - can you jump off onto a pontoon without breaking a leg? Personally I think ease of handling is the key - if the boat is hard work, then it will be less enjoyable. Plenty of storage is adviseable - then think carefully what you really need to take!