Retired and fit - looking for a boat. Advice?

There are a couple of Parker 325s for sale at the mo - both at around the £50k mark. If OP is interested in Sadler 290, you could say the Parker boats are not dissimilar in that they're shoal draft, fast and very well put together. Similar interior to the Sadler 290 too.

PSSA > For Sale > Parker 325/335 > Blue Moon, £55,000

PSSA > For Sale > Parker 325/335 > LazyDays, £47,995

Also, Moody S31 and S336 worth a look if you're after a bilge keel that sails well. Most are fin keel. Very spacious and well made boats
 
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fredrussell said:
There are a couple of Parker 325s for sale at the mo - both at around the £50k mark. If OP is interested in Sadler 290, you could say the Parker boats are not dissimilar in that they're shoal draft, fast and very well put together. Similar interior to the Sadler 290 too.

PSSA > For Sale > Parker 325/335 > Blue Moon, £55,000

PSSA > For Sale > Parker 325/335 > LazyDays, £47,995

Also, Moody S31 and S336 worth a look if you're after a bilge keel that sails well. Most are fin keel. Very spacious and well made boats
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25 year old 32ft boat not sold for 50 grand....
 
Sadler - 290 in Hampshire, South East - Expired | Boats and Outboards


Sold by Parker Adams on the Hamble. Looking at the video those boys seem to earn their percentage, very impressive. I would seriously look at them if I had a boat to sell in that area, on the strength of that.

Here is another video by them ( sadly boat sold ), great attention to detail again:







.
 
matt1 said:
Hunter Channel 31 about half that price and a much better boat - sails like a witch in either fin or twin keel variant
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Parker would outsail the Hunter AND get you to places up river the Hunter couldn't though. There's a reason why they cost what they do.
 
fredrussell said:
Parker would outsail the Hunter AND get you to places up river the Hunter couldn't though. There's a reason why they cost what they do.
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Doesn’t match my experience, especially when the wind builds ;) That David Thomas design is a rocket ship! Drawing 4’2” and sitting upright when dried out will allow you to go to most places, if that is what the OP was after. In that respect the binary difference is really between lifting & twin Vs fixed fin rather than between lifting Vs twin.
 
fredrussell said:
There are a couple of Parker 325s for sale at the mo - both at around the £50k mark. If OP is interested in Sadler 290, you could say the Parker boats are not dissimilar in that they're shoal draft, fast and very well put together. Similar interior to the Sadler 290 too.

PSSA > For Sale > Parker 325/335 > Blue Moon, £55,000

PSSA > For Sale > Parker 325/335 > LazyDays, £47,995

Also, Moody S31 and S336 worth a look if you're after a bilge keel that sails well. Most are fin keel. Very spacious and well made boats
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Don’t know these. Realistically with a budget of £50k I would be unlikely to spend all that on a purchase. Even something very good will need a bit of attention.
 
neptis said:
Don’t know these. Realistically with a budget of £50k I would be unlikely to spend all that on a purchase. Even something very good will need a bit of attention.
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When I bought my boat new in 2003 I included about 5% of extras. By the end of the year those "extras " went to over 25% of the new price.
I dread to think what would happen with a second hand boat with parts that probably need replacing that one does not realise at purchase.
 
Tranona said:
Really can't see any evidence to support the idea that old "quality" boats break down less than modern boats whose crews are then at greater risk . I can accept that you and many others (most of whom seem never to have owned a modern boat) might prefer boats from their youth but to try and justify that by saying modern boats are dangerous, poorly made, unreliable, don't last etc just flies in the face of all the evidence around us - if you care to look.
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I think this is one of the key factors in these discussions. Some of us have experienced both old boats and newer boats; some have only experienced old boats and don't understand the progress which manufacturers have made.

Tranona said:
Really pleased I was able to get to my boat yesterday for the first time since December. Reminded me of the fact that everything fits, lots of locker space, handholds, well engineered systems (all of which work) no condensation, dusty dry bilges, engine starting instantly, - indeed nothing to do except for one locker door sticking. Two minutes work with a screwdriver to adjust the hinges. Of course it is only 5 years old.
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Same here, the boat looked fine, just as I'd left it many weeks ago. I didn't even have a sticky locker door! Mine's 7 years old.
 
The cost of repair/replacement on any secondhand boat does depends on current condition and your personal choices of equipment. I know I have been doing everything the way I want it on my Fulmar and not worrying about the cost, the extra is now about 100% of the purchase cost. By comparison this total now equates to about a third of the cost of a new AWB 32ft yacht at that time. Having the money meant I could have bought a new 32ft boat, so I am not that worried about the cost of my renovations. I have planned to keep Concerto for at least 15 years and over the next 10 years the costs will be minimal. So I will enjoy my work on getting the boat exactly right in a well above average condition. So over the period of ownership I expect I will loose a similar amount as if I bought a new boat. However, whilst my daughter was at university, I used most of the balance of the funds to buy a flat for her. This was sold at the end of her degree and I cleared a nice capital gain plus the low rent she paid. This totals more than what I expect to loose over the whole period of owning Concerto. So for anyone who thinks I have spent too much, I feel I am on a winner. The work done will make Concerto so easy to keep to the same standard and make her very easy to sell when I finally swallow the anchor.
 
Concerto said:
You ask why the sales of Westerly's fell off a cliff. Well they constructed in a traditional way with bonded bulkheads and the hull deck joint. They had wood interiors that were hand made. In comparison many of the continental yards had governement support and tax breaks to assist charter sales, which no British yard had. Many of the continental yards went into factory production (land to expand was much cheaper to aquire and develop) and using numerous agents to sell their boats. They benefitted from economies of scale making their boats cheaper. The final nail in the coffin was an exchange rate that was making continental boats even cheaper. That is why we now have virtually no major yards building yachts in bulk.
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The reason why the UK leisure boat market folded is not a mystery. The explanation is part of most University syllabuses on Manufacturing and Marketing courses. The answer is is the same as for the previously world leading UK motorcycle, automotive and aeronautical industries. Crap British Management.

Never mind the Lada and the Skoda, the great British De Lorean Car and the disastrous British ?!!MG!!?? Mini Metro are examples of how huge Government subsidy of a badly designed, badly managed product does not kill off better competitors in an open market..

I love old Westerlys and Laurent Giles was a great yacht designer and ahead of his time but Westerly stagnated after his initial innovative designs.
The fact that they produced a range of (rather noble and splendid) 33 foot boats with one single large cabin in an era where the market was for family sailing just shows how out of touch they were.

No, it was nothing to do with Johnny foreigner playing dirty tricks with government subsidies. It was your tricky Jonny foreigner actually being better at market research, boat design and marketing and realising what the late 20th century public wanted and giving it to them. People were looking for comfy family cruising boats and not a cramped narrow hull where some old geezer cooked beans on a single ring and took a dump in a bucket. The french designers realised that even 99% of the old farts who sat eating their beans straight from the pan on a bucket only ever ventured a single fair weather day sail away from their home marina and so the market did not need ridiculously over engineered boats that could cope with F12 storms. So, the French designers introduced wide bodied boats with plenty of comfort that could withstand most weather that you will get outside the Southern Oceans. And cheaper! And they didn't leak! That is why they were successful.

Westerly, and others, belatedly introduced French designers to catch up but they left it too late. They died.
 
Daydream believer said:
So what happens if the OP wants to cruise the Dutch canals from Amsterdam to Breskens then visit the southern Channel ports right through to the CIs at the height of the holiday season? Going to be very popular with HMs , isn't he :rolleyes:
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If the reason for buying a cat is to get the crusing stability, buy an old cat like a Prout or Iroquois. The beam is less than many modern monohulls. You can sail flat with not more beam than the equivalent modern monohull.
 
neptis said:
Ticks everything.
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>>> Ticks everything.
Only if one tick box says - "All guests on board will be very small and require no privacy."

Haway man and look at a Sadler 34. One of the greatest sea boats of all time that will get you through a F10 and, more importantly, allow your guest take a dump with a degree of privacy while you sit on deck in a decent sized cockpit.
 
Forgive me for not reading the 195 posts. I am not familiar with UK boat models. I just want to say that you (OP) most difficult decision is whether to actually buy a boat.
" there are lies, damned lies and STATISTICS" So when I look at my mooring area and all the boats I know never move. Plus I meet and consider new members to our club who buy a dream and never really get obsessed (ie use their boat) I reckon statistically OP has got a perhaps 5% chance of the whole idea being a good idea. ie statistically buy a camper van or caravan or just leave your money in the bank.
This will be shock horror to all the participants of this forum who love their boats. I love my little boat too. I have had it for 40 years and sail it every weekend. It has given me much pleasure and introduced me to the local yacht club so many good friends. On the other hand being a boat lover I am always shocked at the boats (90%) I see that are neglected. (despite ongoing costs for moorings)
So I can only beg the OP to make sure he is realistic about using the boat and loving it. Any boat by comparison will do. ol'will
 
Ravi said:
No, it was nothing to do with Johnny foreigner playing dirty tricks with government subsidies. It was your tricky Jonny foreigner actually being better at market research, boat design and marketing and realising what the late 20th century public wanted and giving it to them. People were looking for comfy family cruising boats and not a cramped narrow hull where some old geezer cooked beans on a single ring and took a dump in a bucket. The french designers realised that even 99% of the old farts who sat eating their beans straight from the pan on a bucket only ever ventured a single fair weather day sail away from their home marina and so the market did not need ridiculously over engineered boats that could cope with F12 storms. So, the French designers introduced wide bodied boats with plenty of comfort that could withstand most weather that you will get outside the Southern Oceans. And cheaper! And they didn't leak! That is why they were successful.

Westerly, and others, belatedly introduced French designers to catch up but they left it too late. They died.
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Not quite right in your summary. I remember looking at the Dufour Arpege when it was introduced and it could not be further in design from modern designs. The solid bulkhead separating the galley and chart table from the main cabin might be fine for night racing, but not good for social conversations. The concept for many years in French boats was to cram as many berths as possible in their boats.

Back in 1987 I decided to buy a new French boat as it seemed good value for money and I like the internal layout. Unfortunately I had a number of problems regarding the construction. Simple mistakes like a moulded battery box bonded to an internal moulding using a piece of glassfibre but failing to key the internal moulding gel coat resulting in the battery box coming free in rough weather. The major problems only were discovered after she was nearly wrecked in the October 1987 hurricane. Parts of the hull flange were badly cut meaning the deck should have been secured with rivet throught the toe rail and deck onto the hull flange except the rivet had no flange to be ifixed to. A crack from the waterline ran right into the cockpit seat. Another problem was found at the top of the rudder stock and required additional support. The basic boat boat cost £18,500 before extras, but the repair to a 5 month old boat took 18 months and £12,500.

I know this French boat predates the modern factory built boats, but my experience has turned me off from boats that are built to the very basic RCD standards. These were created by the pressure from the mass manufacturers in such a way ensured everyone would build to the minimum standard to compete, rather than in a recognised seaman like way. In my opinion these regulations are far too lax and will never fully protect owners. There are plenty of people buying boats on the basis of the RCD classes and think they are getting yachts designed for each category, but ask any experienced sailor and they will certainly tell you they do not offer 100% safety in all conditions for their waters. I always thought regulations were intended to protect people from doing stupid things, but the RCD does not and never will. If people only want to use their boats in F4 or less, then they should never get into trouble.

The French designers were not the instigators of wider beam boats, but a follower of the newer style of racing boats following the introduction of the International Offshore Ruleas this encouraged increased beam.

Westerly never used any French designer in their range. Please get your facts right.
 
Confess I have not read complete thread but note you say Retired and Fit. You also say you have funds - boats can be expensive and a money sink.

Retired , Fit and Wealthy is better :-)

I like sailing in warm waters and if you have time/circumstance for extended stays I would consider buying a boat in Greece/ Croatia or even Portugal unless having it local to enjoy the pleasure of working on it is more important!
 
Sailfree said:
I like sailing in warm waters and if you have time/circumstance for extended stays I would consider buying a boat in Greece/ Croatia or even Portugal unless having it local to enjoy the pleasure of working on it is more important!
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Might be a few ,"ex British owned", available soon. But being retired one might want more than 90 days sailing a year. I can never understand one wanting the hassle of booking & travelling back & forth on planes etc. to get to one's boat every time one wants to go for a sail. Lugging gear etc half way across europe.

I find that being able to nip to the marina to have a chat to Daydream Believer about current problems, whilst polishing bits, really helpful. Who cares about the weather. I am British & like it as it is. :rolleyes:
Still, to each his own :)
 
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