Retired and fit - looking for a boat. Advice?

Mudisox said:
Don't write off two hulls, especially if you want to keep your partner onboard. Comfort and safe if you have an open mind.
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So what happens if the OP wants to cruise the Dutch canals from Amsterdam to Breskens then visit the southern Channel ports right through to the CIs at the height of the holiday season? Going to be very popular with HMs , isn't he :rolleyes:
 
Tranona said:
The reality is that Westerly went broke 3 times (at least) because their costs were too high and they encountered serious competition from much more attractive propositions. That is the way markets work. While they had a sort of captive market in the UK their export sales were minimal and in a global (or at least European) market you cannot exist if you only operate in one section of it - at least if you want volume. This is of course not unique to the boat building market. The UK is not a good place for "traditional" manufacturing.

One of the myths is that "hand made" and "traditional methods" are superior - they are not at this level, or indeed now at any level. all builders now use a significant amount of machine made interiors, not just to save costs but to improve quality. i don't know if you ever went into the old style building sheds such as Westerly used to work from, but I worked for a boat builder at that time was horrified by what I saw, not only in inefficiencies but lack of basic understanding of production methods.

They (and all the other builders who gave up) failed because their products were unattractive to paying customers. That is why we have no volume builder in the UK - and have not had for nearly 30 years.
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I do not disagree with you. Many of the UK boats builders were total amateurs and lacked investment. In the very early days of GRP in 1965 my parents bought a Kingfisher 30 and I remember watching the hull being laid up using just a chop strand spray gun. There was absolutely no control as to how much was applied in any area. There was a Kingfisher 20 hull and deck outside that was a reject, the weight of the hull was not enough. Four of the workers bought it and completed it for themseleves. I can remember going to the factory producing the T24 and T31. Not only was it a mess but later we found out the number of boats being built did not match the orders, they kept changing the name on the order sheet attached to the boat depending on which buyer was coming to check their boat in build.

In a much later time my parents were buying a 38 ft motor boat and the problems were massive and included the pressure water system having plastic clips that could not hold the pressure, engine controls that never operated smoothly, the boat had a list that needed the water tank being moved from starboard to port. Then there was a fishing boat builder was trying to enter the luxury motor boat market and my parents were their first customer. Some of their work in the mechanical department was brilliant but the idea of luxury was almost forgotten and remember the problems they made for themselves by trying to make internal mouldings before they had really an idea how to fit them. Their worst mistake was to mount the hand bilge pump in the only hanging locker. This along with continual delays made my parents cancel the order. The yard were very unhappy at the time, but took the completed boat to the Southampton Show and sold it for £30,000 more than our contract price. Later we found out the company had been very badly run by a family member with the intention to bust the company so he could buy it at a minimal cost from the receiver.

I hate to think how many yards I have been in over the years, and virtually all of them worked in a haphazard way. This included top names like Hunter Boats and Camper and Nicholson. However many of those boats are still being sailed today because they were over engineered by todays standard. Some practices like moulding a hull in 2 halves and joining it together seem to thankfully have been stopped. I do not dispute that modern factory built boats are better controlled in their build but they are built to keep time and costs down. Having personally experienced some problems with some more modern boats, they are not totally right in all aspects. One of the biggest problems is fitting a boat out with all major components being dropped into the hull before the deck is fitted can mean access to some components and pipework can be a major headache to reach at a later time, not to mention sticking the internal rib matrix to hold everything in place. I certainly do not think modern boats are badly built, but they are more built down to a price. If you compare say a 40ft yacht built say 30 years ago to a modern 40ft yacht you will see the change in layout with a simplified construction. Little things like cupboards, drawers, fiddles, hand holds, are much reduced. The interiors have become much more open with greater headroom and light, which is great in harbour but not ideal in any rough weather. Again I comment about the older boats sit in the water rather than on the water, which is more stable in slightly choppy water.

The modern choices of yachts do not really appeal to me, but it is horses for courses. You like the modern boat, I like the older boat. Thank goodness there are other people with similar thoughts as if people only wanted new boats, there would be no market for secondhand boats of any age. In the past cars were built to last, but now they have a life expectancy built into them. This is fine as it aids the motor manufacturers to build more cars and continually introduce new models with added features. In a way that is what is happening in boat building today. The major difference is if a car breaks down it is on land with little risk to the occupants, whereas in a yacht that breaks down it is usually at sea and the occupants are now putting their lives at risk.
 
Daydream believer said:
So what happens if the OP wants to cruise the Dutch canals from Amsterdam to Breskens then visit the southern Channel ports right through to the CIs at the height of the holiday season? Going to be very popular with HMs , isn't he :rolleyes:
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Have already done all that myself in a variety of cats, so what is the problem?
 
neptis said:
I’m retiring but fit and looking for a boat. Sailed dinghy’s as a kid, as an adult crewed on trips around the UK and chartered flotilla yachts in the med. So fairly basic experience and very limited time. Now I have time and funds will not be a constraint. I want something that I can sail around the UK for starters with my partner (equivalent skill). Not seen anything new that appeals – but I could get hold of something like a Westerly Centaur or LM 28 and tidy it up.
Any thoughts on what I should look for?
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You should like for a nice tidy boat that needs no work or upgrades, well within your budget.
Buy the cleanest, most sorted boat that you like.
It's a lot of work and to make the interior decent again once a boat has got beyond a certain point.

Decide whether you want a bilge keeler or not.
Be open minded and go and look at boats which don't exactly meet what your first thought you wanted.
TBH you have left it late for this year, even without a pandemic.
So if you want to sail this Summer, you may have to take what comes your way and go with it.
 
Mudisox said:
Have already done all that myself in a variety of cats, so what is the problem?
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Perhaps you did not stop at Middleburg, or Willenstad, Dordrech & Gouda would probably not have really wanted you at the height of the season either. If ou turned up at Boulogne & the hammerhead was full you would have problems. try dieppe when the Figaros are in town. You would be far from welcome with an unsociable beam of a cat. I would not want you rafted against me in Ostend Montgomery dock in a swell either
Perhaps you were lucky & managed to find places but in the height of the season that would be rare
 
Perhaps if you realised that my present boat is 32' long and 14' wide, and I avoid popular places in the "height of the season" you might understand but not really into a spat with other folk, just wish that the OP keeps an open mind.

Daydream believer said:
Perhaps you did not stop at Middleburg, or Willenstad, Dordrech & Gouda would probably not have really wanted you at the height of the season either. If ou turned up at Boulogne & the hammerhead was full you would have problems. try dieppe when the Figaros are in town. You would be far from welcome with an unsociable beam of a cat. I would not want you rafted against me in Ostend Montgomery dock in a swell either
Perhaps you were lucky & managed to find places but in the height of the season that would be rare
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Concerto said:
In the past cars were built to last, but now they have a life expectancy built into them. This is fine as it aids the motor manufacturers to build more cars and continually introduce new models with added features. In a way that is what is happening in boat building today. The major difference is if a car breaks down it is on land with little risk to the occupants, whereas in a yacht that breaks down it is usually at sea and the occupants are now putting their lives at risk.
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This really does not stand up to scrutiny. I have been buying new or nearly new cars for over 50 years and simply don't recognise older cars being built t to last. In the 60s cars of just about all mass makes were getting terminal rust in less than 5 years. I spent the first 10 years of my working life in the motor industry, first with Ford and then I worked for a major component manufacturer of OE parts selling spares. Our demand projections were based on clutches 25k miles, exhausts every 2 years, batteries 3 years, steering ball joints 30k miles and so on. Engine rebuilds 40-60k miles, - my brother made his first pile reconditioning engines in volume. My parents' first new car in 1960 needed servicing every 1000 miles, a decoke every 10000 miles and it was on its last legs when they sold it in 1965. Its replacement needed a new engine at 40000 miles and was in banger territory when they changed in 1972. I have just changed my car, the old one was 15 years old. Had it from new and it was still working fine except for the airconditioning. Expect the new one to see me out. Have you forgotten such gems as Morris 1100s, Hillman Minxes, Triumph Heralds and all the other monstrosities visited on the paying motoring public. It was only when the Japanese did the equivalent of what BenJenBav have done to the yachting industry that quality, reliability, long life etc have become the norm.

Really can't see any evidence to support the idea that old "quality" boats break down less than modern boats whose crews are then at greater risk . I can accept that you and many others (most of whom seem never to have owned a modern boat) might prefer boats from their youth but to try and justify that by saying modern boats are dangerous, poorly made, unreliable, don't last etc just flies in the face of all the evidence around us - if you care to look. Really pleased I was able to get to my boat yesterday for the first time since December. Reminded me of the fact that everything fits, lots of locker space, handholds, well engineered systems (all of which work) no condensation, dusty dry bilges, engine starting instantly, - indeed nothing to do except for one locker door sticking. Two minutes work with a screwdriver to adjust the hinges. Of course it is only 5 years old.
 
TernVI said:
You should like for a nice tidy boat that needs no work or upgrades, well within your budget.
Buy the cleanest, most sorted boat that you like.
It's a lot of work and to make the interior decent again once a boat has got beyond a certain point.

Decide whether you want a bilge keeler or not.
Be open minded and go and look at boats which don't exactly meet what your first thought you wanted.
TBH you have left it late for this year, even without a pandemic.
So if you want to sail this Summer, you may have to take what comes your way and go with it.
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Great advice. I’m assuming that this summer is looking and shortlisting, buying in the winter with a “trials” choosing mooring/yard and any fettling in the spring.
 
neptis said:
Great advice. I’m assuming that this summer is looking and shortlisting, buying in the winter with a “trials” choosing mooring/yard and any fettling in the spring.
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Sensible timetable.

In my experience it is a bit like girls though. When you see the one you want you will know it.

And rather resent any further advice one way or the other. : -)

.
 
Mudisox said:
Perhaps if you realised that my present boat is 32' long and 14' wide, and I avoid popular places in the "height of the season" you might understand but not really into a spat with other folk, just wish that the OP keeps an open mind.
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No I take the point about no spats. But whilst one suggests catamarans & they are roomy, I think that it is important to make the Op aware of the big downside to that sort of boat if they keep it in the area I described.
That being said , all boats have pluses & minuses & if one is not going togo to those areas then it is no big deal. It does, however, restrict ones travel if one later gets confident in the boat & wants to try it
But to each his own & there are loads of cats in exotic locations which serve their purpose admirably I am sure. They would not sell otherwise
 
My wife has the Port aft cabin, which side also happens to have the galley and fridge etc, leaving me the Stbd one which has the bathroom. [ Every woman who has come aboard has been most impressed with the bathroom A.O.T a heads}
Meet in the middle saloon! We re arrange for couples who come to visit.
Twice round UK, with avatar, and also down the outside to Med and many canals now, so well suited to coastal hopping as well as committee boat duties at home and abroad. Level at anchor.
 
neptis said:
I’m retiring but fit and looking for a boat. Sailed dinghy’s as a kid, as an adult crewed on trips around the UK and chartered flotilla yachts in the med. So fairly basic experience and very limited time. Now I have time and funds will not be a constraint. I want something that I can sail around the UK for starters with my partner (equivalent skill). Not seen anything new that appeals – but I could get hold of something like a Westerly Centaur or LM 28 and tidy it up.
Any thoughts on what I should look for?
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Sadler 290
see
Sadler - 290 in Hampshire, South East - Expired | Boats and Outboards If its still available this is light years ahead of most of what is mentioned.
 
doris said:
Sadler 290
see
Sadler - 290 in Hampshire, South East - Expired | Boats and Outboards If its still available this is light years ahead of most of what is mentioned.
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I agree - that is an outstanding boat* and in a way the last gasp of British boat building. Price is not far off the new price for the basic boat (which was said to have been under priced) iirc but the ad says she has all the extras in which case she might be a snap.

* Daydream Believer and Tranona have just fallen off their chairs...?
 
Kukri said:
I agree - that is an outstanding boat* and in a way the last gasp of British boat building. Price is not far off the new price for the basic boat (which was said to have been under priced) iirc but the ad says she has all the extras in which case she might be a snap.

* Daydream Believer and Tranona have just fallen off their chairs...?
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Sold - I should think it went quickly (Ad was May time).
 
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