Reporting Departure and Arrival UK

[sfellows]

Can anyone provide a definitive answer to departing and arriving from/to the UK in a yacht. I completed the online form for departure of UK the and then one for arrival back in the UK when we went to Alderney last weekend. All UK Passport holders so no complexity. The advise from Border Patrol is that you must fly a Q flag when re-entering UK territorial waters and NOT LOWER IT UNTIL YOU HAVE BEEN CONTACTED BY UK BORDER FORCE.

It's now Wednesday and we haven't been contacted. Do we have to fly a Q flag permanently now? What a mess.......

 

[Boathook]

I would give it a couple of hours and then take down.

Must have a look at there site again as I'm going abroad next week.

 

[Barton Seagoon]

When we returned from France a couple of weeks ago, I just telephoned the Border Force while sailing past Hurst Castle. They answered promptly and told me that our form had been received and we could take the Q flag down and continue our journey back home. The number for Southampton is +44 (0)7810 851199, and all the numbers are listed at Tell Border Force and HMRC you are sailing to or from the UK in a pleasure craft

 

[Pye_End]

When we returned from France a couple of weeks ago, I just telephoned the Border Force while sailing past Hurst Castle. They answered promptly and told me that our form had been received and we could take the Q flag down and continue our journey back home. The number for Southampton is +44 (0)7810 851199, and all the numbers are listed at Tell Border Force and HMRC you are sailing to or from the UK in a pleasure craft

I agree that the instructions are not clear. I did this, and it seemed to attract no criticism from them. Tied up Ramsgate, and immediately rang them.

 

[jbweston]

I did the new online procedure for the first time last week. I hadn't done the international arrival in the UK by boat thing since the days of the old paper 1331, having sailed in the Baltic for the last 10-15 years.

I arrived in Bangor, Northern Ireland from Dun Laoghaire, Eire, having filed the online form the previous evening, getting an email acknowledgement in what I assume is the standard form as below. I flew the Q flag and phoned the regional Border Force enquiry office (somewhere in the north of England) as I thought was required. The very friendly woman there said that, if I'd received the email acknowledgement and Border Force hadn't contacted me any further, then the email was all the clearance I needed.

That didn't seem quite to fit with what I'd read about keeping the Q flag up until given permission to take it down, but presumably the Border Force woman knew what she was talking about.

It's possible they do it differently in other Border Force offices of course . . .

 

[LiftyK]

Same here. Still no reply several days after receiving the confirmation receipt. The comment above is very helpful, thank you. It is annoying that the form stresses that the Q flag must remain up until entry is approved, only to find it’s ok if nothing is heard.

On a related note, while getting stamped out in Belgium, the friendly police officer asked me to ensure I completed a Schengen exit form. There are forms for entry and exit. I’d not heard of these. Searching for “Pleasure craft declaration Belgium” I found the form. I was not able to provide all the answers the section on ports was rather complicated. The form changed to a new version in July so I tried again only to find an error when I clicked to submit.

 

[bluerm166]

In a separate guidance note it says that you should ring the relevant Border Force Office when you return in order to obtain clearance .This is what I have done and a couple of questions and I get clearance straight away,including the answer 'yes' you can take down the yellow flag.
You get an acknowledgement email to your pleasurecraft submission ,which is of course before the event,and not a clearance..They need to know that you have indeed arrived where you said you would and this is done with a phone call from you.The submission form and or the acknowledgement should make this clear,but doesn't.

 

[jbweston]

In a separate guidance note it says that you should ring the relevant Border Force Office when you return in order to obtain clearance .This is what I have done and a couple of questions and I get clearance straight away,including the answer 'yes' you can take down the yellow flag.
You get an acknowledgement email to your pleasurecraft submission ,which is of course before the event,and not a clearance..They need to know that you have indeed arrived where you said you would and this is done with a phone call from you.The submission form and or the acknowledgement should make this clear,but doesn't.

See my post avbove.

Yes, this is what the guidance says and is the procedure I followed - only to be told by the Border Force woman when I phoned her that the acknowledgement email (if there was no subsequnt contact from Border Force) was all the clearance I needed. That's what suprised me.

 

[st599]

In a separate guidance note it says that you should ring the relevant Border Force Office when you return in order to obtain clearance .This is what I have done and a couple of questions and I get clearance straight away,including the answer 'yes' you can take down the yellow flag.
You get an acknowledgement email to your pleasurecraft submission ,which is of course before the event,and not a clearance..They need to know that you have indeed arrived where you said you would and this is done with a phone call from you.The submission form and or the acknowledgement should make this clear,but doesn't.

It all changed in April.

Now the form is linked to the BF database and you have to wait for a reply about clearance to enter, requirements for the skipper to check validity of paperwork or a requirement to offload a crew member.

There was a webinar invite sent to clubs, (1 weeks notice of a 2pm midweek webinar)

 

[jbweston]

It all changed in April.

Now the form is linked to the BF database and you have to wait for a reply about clearance to enter, requirements for the skipper to check validity of paperwork or a requirement to offload a crew member.

There was a webinar invite sent to clubs, (1 weeks notice of a 2pm midweek webinar)

As I said, the experience I described was in late June. I was expecting what you have described. They just didn't do that.

I'm not claiming Border Force followed their own correct procedure in my case, but I've told you what they told me.

 

[bluerm166]

Maybe it's easier if you are British ,single handed so without foreign crew or any crew,and returning from the near continent,but on the 17th June I returned to Ramsgate,having sent the return voyage notice,tied up,rang the SE border force office,and got clearance over the phone within 5 minutes.Yes I understand that if you have foreign crew,are coming from afar,maybe with a vessel itself returning to UK etc.etc. that BF require a period for consideration and checks and that they don't want you to arrive and present them with an issue,perhaps with the crew dispersing prematurely.So you will have to wait.
In my case the 'friendly' acknowledgement email from BF is exactly the same as previous years and makes no mention of waiting for a positive acceptance of the entry.The guidance linked to is the same guidance as previous years so doesn't mention a further permission.
So presumably there are alternative emails now deployed for cases where there may be perceived issues.

 

[jbweston]

Maybe it's easier if you are British ,single handed so without foreign crew or any crew,and returning from the near continent,but on the 17th June I returned to Ramsgate,having sent the return voyage notice,tied up,rang the SE border force office,and got clearance over the phone within 5 minutes.Yes I understand that if you have foreign crew,are coming from afar,maybe with a vessel itself returning to UK etc.etc. that BF require a period for consideration and checks and that they don't want you to arrive and present them with an issue,perhaps with the crew dispersing prematurely.So you will have to wait.
In my case the 'friendly' acknowledgement email from BF is exactly the same as previous years and makes no mention of waiting for a positive acceptance of the entry.
So presumably there are alternative emails now deployed for cases where there may be perceived issues.

That's possible, because I was a Britsh passport holder travelling from Eire to Northern Ireland. Travelling by pushbike or Transit van across the land border there would have been no border check or procedure to follow at all, so maybe in practice for pleasure craft they don't care much. Or maybe they do. I wouldn't like to rely on it.

 

[sfellows]

From the replies above, it's clear it isn't clear.

As I originally said. What a mess.

 

[wonkywinch]

The gov website says

Fly the yellow ‘Q’ flag when you enter UK waters. For journeys that you must report, you must fly the yellow ‘Q’ flag as soon as you enter UK waters (the 12-mile limit).

Make sure the flag can easily be seen and do not take it down until you’ve finished reporting to customs authorities.

As far as I'd be concerned, submitting the form and getting an acknowledgement but no further contact asking to check visa etc, then I have completed the task of "reporting to customs authorities".

At Heathrow, I tap my passport on an e-gate and it opens. I don't go hunting for an immigration officer to check everything is OK. They know who you are from your form, your AIS or coastal radar. Big Brother is always watching so I wouldn't worry about it. If they want to see you or spot check you, they will.

Sailing a pleasure craft that is arriving in the UK

 

[ashtead]

Should you be passing Haslar there is a large grey border force vessel at end of G pontoon which seems well crewed -I’m sure they will advise -that said I haven’t seen many yellow flags flying into Portsmouth harbour but maybe they are lowered at Hurst or Bembridge as everyone is reading their email traffic affirmations as they sail towards the needles.

 

[wonkywinch]

The government (via the CAA) offered a massive financial incentive for light aircraft pilots to buy electronic conspicuity devices (AIS equivalent). I wonder if they will do the same for boating as it makes their life much easier than getting their binoculars out.

 

[st599]

The government (via the CAA) offered a massive financial incentive for light aircraft pilots to buy electronic conspicuity devices (AIS equivalent). I wonder if they will do the same for boating as it makes their life much easier than getting their binoculars out.

VDES (aka AIS 2.0) is rolling out across Europe, hopefully the UK won't be years behind.

 

[Pye_End]

As far as I'd be concerned, submitting the form and getting an acknowledgement but no further contact asking to check visa etc, then I have completed the task of "reporting to customs authorities".

The email from Border Force once you submit your return form says:

​

You can only lower the Q flag once advised by Border Force.​

 

[sfellows]

Which is why I posted the OP. It is a mess.

And having dealt with Government offices I can categorically state that contradictory statements by the Government do not protect you from falling foul of either of the contradictory statements.

 

[Major_Clanger]

Which is why I posted the OP. It is a mess.

And having dealt with Government offices I can categorically state that contradictory statements by the Government do not protect you from falling foul of either of the contradictory statements.

Agree, the whole thing is a completely unnecessary mess and the civil servants responsible for drawing-up the new protocol should be sacked.

I was bringing a UK flagged yacht back to Wolverstone last year that had been in Portuguese waters for several years. We were called by a BF RIB off Dungeness and told to take down the Q flag, and that there was no need to have flown it unless we had something to declare. I think they make it up as they go along, partly down to the attitude of the people on the yacht concerned.