replacing sprayhood with windscreen

Stork_III said:
HR31 and HR34 flat sides, maybe on the bigger ones curve sides but very slight.
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The HR screens shown do have a slight curve but the glass has to be bent to fit, as those who have had to replace them find out. 34s and 31s have the same slight curve.

I agree with robih that a windscreen is a revelation, being both snug and optically clear. It is of course a compromise between nothing and a pilot house, but that is what many of us want. I have seen a number of boats converted to screens, some effectively and some with a clumsy-looking result. I suggest the OP looks into it and sees if he can create one that is effective and not unsightly or too expensive. I would strongly suggest going for glass rather than plastic, both for durability and better viewing.
 
johnalison said:
The HR screens shown do have a slight curve but the glass has to be bent to fit, as those who have had to replace them find out.
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And it also has to be toughened!

I replaced the alloy fixing rails on my HR352, and getting the (straight) alloy rails on to the curved side windows without breaking something was interesting.
 
It's all getting to be a bit about points scoring again.

Time for my summer holiday from here.

Ink
 
In support of the OP.

I said it on a post on pilot houses.

I have never understaood that if you were to buy a new yacht the first thing you need is wet weather gear as to sail in all weathers -yachts, off the shelf, have no protection. But its not only foul weather that needs to be accommodated. Here in Oz (and I assume the Med and Carib) we need protection from the sun and inevitably owners end up with a 'windscreen' or spray hood and a big cockpit size Bimini and this can then be extended to an all encompassing tent.

So in criticism of Thinwater's comment - coverage is considered by many to be essential. So PVB - I don't only correct something you said but am happy to comment on others - I have no favourites. Now I wonder if Thinwater will say I pick on him :).

Most opt for a frame made from stainless tubing and a canvas cover, or covers, and the canvas and sometime the frame don't last, despite the claims of UV resistance.

I see lots of runabouts, some quite big, with windscreens (in fact they all seem to have windscreens) - which is one reason to query PVB's comment that windscreens are expensive.

As a custom designed product, the same as one made from tube and canvas they will cost more than a production run.

Toughend glass was very expensive but with the increased use of toughened glass in showers and balcony panels prices have dropped, markedly. The idea of an acrylic shower screen is very 20th Century. Acrylic in yacht windows is also less common, many windows and hatches are now toughened glass - and specialist suppliers have developed to meet the need. Most toughened glass, or a lot of it, comes from China now and having it cut to size is not quite as cheap as cutting for a picture frame - but there is a 'processor' near you.

And picking on PVB - as I said he has a persecution complex - but I would never, ever suggest to an OP, or someone posting on a thread, that their ideas are too expensive. To suggest something is expensive and in same breath admit that you had exactly what the OP is looking for seems to say - I am rich but I doubt you will be able to afford it. Yes - arrogance. Maybe PVB did not mean any of this - but that was my interpretation and if I thought along those lines - others might also. Instead of wingeing to me - maybe PVB might consider the OP and apologise in advance for any potential misunderstanding - it was PVB who said a windscreen would be expensive. The OP has said in the opening thread that he is looking at manufacturers - he will soon find out the reality - he does not need us to suggest he has not the wherewithal to meet his desires - he will soon find out or think despite any cost - its just what he and his family needs.

In the meantime he is looking for advice on what he needs in a fixed windscreen - and currently some of the focus is in being sympathetic to a poor choice of words scripted by PVB.

And to the OP. We have a catamaran and had the same issue. We started off with a tube and canvas contraption but replaced it with a small pilot house over the wheel that we made at home from foam, glass fibre and acrylic for the windows. There is a picture of it, in the distance, in an article on snubbers in the July issue of YM. It was not difficult to make. If you want to know more - send me a PM. Interestingly the builder of our catamaran offered the canvas contraption as as an option but after we built our 'pilot house' they designed a solid pilot house along the lines of ours - and many buyers take up the option.

Jonathan

I do confess that I enjoy creating (read the article on snubbers) and did enjoy building our 'Pilot House' - but hope not to build another as building is a misnomer - most of the time is spent fairing. If I were to build a windscreen along the lines of an HR design I would need to pay for someone to make it - I don't weld. But I would look at building it from foam and glass - as I prefer to solve a problem myself rather than throw money at it - but I know my limitations. We all have different skills and experiences - this forum is about sharing our skills and experiences. Knowledge is of little value unless it is shared. Now if I were to build my own windscreen I would come here first and solicit views on design - as the OP has done. I would then distil those views (mostly and currently absent) and make some decisions

Its not about point scoring

Take care, stay safe

J
 
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As a commercial project, I reckon you'd need a defibrillator nearby when they tell you the price, as a DIY one I doubt it would cost a lot more than a professional sprayhood.

There are plenty of Youtube sailors who've done it, with varying success aesthetically, but fitting to complex curves doesn't have to be hard. Mock up the outline in cheap wood, mdf, even, put it in place, then measure the distance to the cabin top in the places that common sense whispers is correct, then make an accurate mock up, correct as needed and go from there.

I'm ruminating over whether to do that for our next boat, but it's a cat, so the "pilot house" would be the best part of 3m wide, so space to build, transport and the weight would all be an issue.
 
Wading in here to offer a possible alternative, what about a "hybrid" solution? Have the lower (screen) part of the enclosure made with much heavier duty glass than the usual (60 gauge or polycarbonate), and have the frames made as a semi-permanent fixture. The idea isn't mine, I seem to remember Sailing UMA did something similar on theirs, the visibility through the thicker glass is much better as it doesn't lose shape and distort.

None of these solutions are likely to come cheap (whatever your definition of that is), so it's about finding a solution that is easiest and looks good, IMO. I like the deck lines of the Southerly, so I'd definitely want to have something that complimented those if I was the lucky owner.

Good luck.
 
Our Moody can either be had with or without a screen but they are curved without an opening section etc. We have one now and it was a feature which attracted us and much more cosy as said with a hood with small windows on top in plastic which we have had replaced once so far and now have small covers to protect plastic. I know that there was a Moody 36 which has a screen replaced under insurance and was very pricey after it shattered - I suggest it might be worth contacting moody owners association as I suspect their archives might be useful if contemplating installing afresh and they might have details of suppliers and pitfalls etc. I did also hear of a Hallberg 34 panel on a screen fracturing in cold weather but whether this is true don’t know but if so clearly other more learned forumites of which there are many might be able to comment more . I guess how attractive it is depends on personal views but if I wanted a screen I might be tempted to find a vessel with one. I have seen a westerly centaur with a complete hard top which might be another option if minded to retrofit a lid.
 
Neeves said:
And picking on PVB - as I said he has a persecution complex - but I would never, ever suggest to an OP, or someone posting on a thread, that their ideas are too expensive. To suggest something is expensive and in same breath admit that you had exactly what the OP is looking for seems to say - I am rich but I doubt you will be able to afford it. Yes - arrogance. Maybe PVB did not mean any of this - but that was my interpretation and if I thought along those lines - others might also. Instead of wingeing to me - maybe PVB might consider the OP and apologise in advance for any potential misunderstanding - it was PVB who said a windscreen would be expensive. The OP has said in the opening thread that he is looking at manufacturers - he will soon find out the reality - he does not need us to suggest he has not the wherewithal to meet his desires - he will soon find out or think despite any cost - its just what he and his family needs.
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I've warned you before, if you keep misquoting me the moderators will get involved.

Nowhere did I say the OP's idea would be too expensive. Nowhere did I suggest that the OP wouldn't be able to afford it. All I said was this -

pvb said:
The fixed glass windscreen on my old Hallberg-Rassy was excellent - great visibility plus shelter. The centre section hinged open for ventilation.

However, building a windscreen from scratch is a serious job and will be quite costly.
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Moodysailor said:
We have the origional version, a 50yr old Carbineer 44. The deck saloon makes so much sense in UK waters (IMO, and I appreciate my bias - I love our boat ?)
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Carbineer .... Eclipse ... they are boats that were designed with Pilothouse from start ... and they are excellent.

But we all can point to some real awful examples where a 'conventional boat has had a Pilothouse added .... owner may think it best since sliced bread - but others think it wrong.

Whether we like them or not - the sprayhood sits in the middle and provides a compromise ... would look daft on an Eclipse but suits a Countess ...
 
ashtead said:
I guess how attractive it is depends on personal views but if I wanted a screen I might be tempted to find a vessel with one. I have seen a westerly centaur with a complete hard top which might be another option if minded to retrofit a lid.
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I think this is a key to designing your own, and then making it yourself or having it made.

Look at current yachts that have roughly what you want and distil from them what would work and aesthetically pleasing. Then follow Stemars suggestions in post 26. Your restrictions are, what is there already and that will determine what is possible (and those constraints will be the same whether you do it yourself or have a professional making something for you).

As Stemar suggest making it yourself, quote "as a DIY one I doubt it would cost a lot more than a professional sprayhood". unquote Which would be our experience (in financial terms it does not cost much). It does need time to achieve a good result - and some intensive fairing.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
In support of the OP.

I said it on a post on pilot houses.

I have never understaood that if you were to buy a new yacht the first thing you need is wet weather gear as to sail in all weathers -yachts, off the shelf, have no protection. But its not only foul weather that needs to be accommodated. Here in Oz (and I assume the Med and Carib) we need protection from the sun and inevitably owners end up with a 'windscreen' or spray hood and a big cockpit size Bimini and this can then be extended to an all encompassing tent.

Most opt for a frame made from stainless tubing and a canvas cover, or covers, and the canvas and sometime the frame don't last, despite the claims of UV resistance.

I see lots of runabouts, some quite big, with windscreens (in fact they all seem to have windscreens) - which is one reason to query PVB's comment that windscreens are expensive.

As a custom designed product, the same as one made from tube and canvas they will cost more than a production run.

J
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When you are looking at some of the comments perhaps you need to consider the context. The OP is in the UK and is inevitably looking at a one off custom build on a very expensive boat so the typical DIY add on that you see sometimes on older boats is not going to cut the mustard. As I pointed out earlier the coachroof moulding simply does not lend itself to simply adding on an HR style windscreen. All sexy compound curves - the Southerly house style. So major work in modifying the coachroof to the very high standard of the rest of the boat. Second AFAIK there is only one maker who will tackle the windscreen frame and glass in the UK. Why? because few boats are built in the UK with such screens unlike in US, OZ and parts of Europe where loads of runabouts and sports cruisers are built in mass produced volumes.

Why are screens not common on production yachts? Very simple, there is not the demand from the average buyer. Sure in Scandinavia they are popular, simply because of their sailing environment where good weather protection extends the sailing season. Even then it is only at the upper end of the offshore cruiser market. Southerly occupied a part of the market comparable to HR, Malo, Najad, both in terms of target user and price/quality. None of their boats have screens, even though in their price bracket it would not be an expensive item to include in the design IF potential buyers demanded it. Instead they offered a raised deck saloon with inside steering as an option and the typical canvas sprayhood. This does not work too well on the 32 because its size creates obstacles - headroom, bulk, aesthetics as you can see from the link I posted earlier. However a fixed screen could be made to look good and be effective, but at a price as a retrofit. Generally, though fixed screens really only start to work with larger boats, although HR and Najad have managed with boats as small as 31'.

Most production boats now are orientated towards warm weather, sunny sailing (unlike UK boats from the past) so shelter and shade are high on the list of priorities. Most builders offer frame and canvas biminis and spray hoods as the best compromise, but a number of them (Hanse, Beneteau HR and Amel as examples) have designed some larger models with hard open back shelters and screens.

As always when raising the question "why don't builders.....?" the answer is simple and in 2 parts. First there is no demand (or rather buyers are not prepared to pay) and second, but linked it is not feasible to do in a way that meets buyers' expectations.
 
Refueler said:
Carbineer .... Eclipse ... they are boats that were designed with Pilothouse from start ... and they are excellent.

But we all can point to some real awful examples where a 'conventional boat has had a Pilothouse added .... owner may think it best since sliced bread - but others think it wrong.

Whether we like them or not - the sprayhood sits in the middle and provides a compromise ... would look daft on an Eclipse but suits a Countess ...
Click to expand...

Totally agree - all our previous boats have been conventional (you sail upstairs and sleep downstairs ?) and all bar one have had high quality canvass. The one that didn't was a particular type of class-A enjoyment during a stiff beat back from the solent to Poole that we usually re-framed as "character building".

So yes, I fully agree with you - and the others ??
 
Moodysailor said:
Totally agree - all our previous boats have been conventional (you sail upstairs and sleep downstairs ?) and all bar one have had high quality canvass. The one that didn't was a particular type of class-A enjoyment during a stiff beat back from the solent to Poole that we usually re-framed as "character building".

So yes, I fully agree with you - and the others ??
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I have to admit to a love of Moody boats - but not after the buy-out by the Marina guys .. My fav is the Eclipse 43 .... it just ticks every box for me ...
 
Refueler said:
I have to admit to a love of Moody boats - but not after the buy-out by the Marina guys .. My fav is the Eclipse 43 .... it just ticks every box for me ...
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Total thread drift - sorry.

Personally, I am not as in love with most of the Dixon designed Moody's as the others, but if we could afford it an Eclipse 43 would be on a very short list for me
 
Tranona said:
When you are looking at some of the comments perhaps you need to consider the context. The OP is in the UK and is inevitably looking at a one off custom build on a very expensive boat so the typical DIY add on that you see sometimes on older boats is not going to cut the mustard. As I pointed out earlier the coachroof moulding simply does not lend itself to simply adding on an HR style windscreen. All sexy compound curves - the Southerly house style. So major work in modifying the coachroof to the very high standard of the rest of the boat. Second AFAIK there is only one maker who will tackle the windscreen frame and glass in the UK. Why? because few boats are built in the UK with such screens unlike in US, OZ and parts of Europe where loads of runabouts and sports cruisers are built in mass produced volumes.

Why are screens not common on production yachts? Very simple, there is not the demand from the average buyer. Sure in Scandinavia they are popular, simply because of their sailing environment where good weather protection extends the sailing season. Even then it is only at the upper end of the offshore cruiser market. Southerly occupied a part of the market comparable to HR, Malo, Najad, both in terms of target user and price/quality. None of their boats have screens, even though in their price bracket it would not be an expensive item to include in the design IF potential buyers demanded it. Instead they offered a raised deck saloon with inside steering as an option and the typical canvas sprayhood. This does not work too well on the 32 because its size creates obstacles - headroom, bulk, aesthetics as you can see from the link I posted earlier. However a fixed screen could be made to look good and be effective, but at a price as a retrofit. Generally, though fixed screens really only start to work with larger boats, although HR and Najad have managed with boats as small as 31'.

Most production boats now are orientated towards warm weather, sunny sailing (unlike UK boats from the past) so shelter and shade are high on the list of priorities. Most builders offer frame and canvas biminis and spray hoods as the best compromise, but a number of them (Hanse, Beneteau HR and Amel as examples) have designed some larger models with hard open back shelters and screens.

As always when raising the question "why don't builders.....?" the answer is simple and in 2 parts. First there is no demand (or rather buyers are not prepared to pay) and second, but linked it is not feasible to do in a way that meets buyers' expectations.
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Thanks Tranona,

One point - we have no yacht builders in Australia. All yachts are now imported from all the builders you know well. We have a healthy home build , or professional 'one off' industry for catamarans serviced by the likes of Schionning. Sourcing foam, glass etc is 'easy'. Some years ago one of the big components suppliers made a survey and there were 500 cats in various stages of construction - how many were finished, no idea. We do have a healthy runabout building business and any gaps are filled with imports from NZ or the US. The 'last' Australian builder was Seawind - who are now building in Vietnam.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan
 
That's the way of the world. Maybe the free trade agreement could have included yachts so we could pool resources and get the industry going again!

The runabout industry is important for windscreen and the associated aluminium fabrication industry which is much bigger our way than it is in the UK.
 
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