westernman
Well-known member
And also something which happened in 2016 which we are not allowed to mention.
Registration advice please
- Thread starter Jezleeuk
- Start date
Tranona
Well-known member
Actually they are likely to have come in prior to 1998 when the RCD came in for the EU (which obviously included the UK). The transition rules then said anything already in the EU would be exempt but anything imported afterwards would have to comply. That effectively killed imports of boats from the US because very few would comply without extensive modifications which negated any potential savings in costs. The boat you are looking at more than likely came in that way.
The thing you need to get your head around is that after Brexit the UK government wrote the new rules such that the pre 1985 exemption for VAT and effectively the pre 1998 exemption from the RCD were removed. While the UK certification is technically the same currently as the RCD and having a boat documented as meeting the RCD (see the link earlier) can gain total or partial exemption, undocumented boats like the Formosa have to comply totally which in this case will be impossible simply because it was designed and built long before the standards were created.
There are all sorts of anomolies and unfairness in the rules and the RYA is trying to get some changed (already having had success with another part of the VAT rules) the reality is that so few people are affected and there is no political - or even justice related - benefit that there is unlikely to be any progress.
So you will just have to live with the situation which in reality is no different from that which arises from many other "unfair" restrictions that come from import rules in all sorts of fields.
dunedin
Well-known member
There shouldn’t be any issue REGISTERING under the UK flag - eg SSR/Part 3. Certification would not be an issue for that.
Your issue is with IMPORTING the boat into the UK, as a UK resident.
Again you seem to be mixing up flag registration and other matters.
14K478
Well-known member
Exactly.
I suggest registering under Part One and then NOT permanently importing the boat
Tranona
Well-known member
That point has been emphasised several times earlier in the thread. Seems the OP is having difficulty in understanding the subject.
westernman
Well-known member
To all intents and purposes it is impracticable to import any pre RCD II/2013 boat into the UK from anywhere.
And also impracticable to import any pre RCD II/2013 boat from anywhere into the EU.
[ A few years before 2013 you might just be OK - the engines just might conform to the 2013 emissions requirements, and the other changes in RCD II are not unreasonable and do, for the most part, capture the accepted way of doing things around 2013. ]
And also impracticable to import any pre RCD II/2013 boat from anywhere into the EU.
[ A few years before 2013 you might just be OK - the engines just might conform to the 2013 emissions requirements, and the other changes in RCD II are not unreasonable and do, for the most part, capture the accepted way of doing things around 2013. ]
Pump-Out
Active member
You seem to have a better understanding than most over all this.
A question, rather than a challenge:
I have certainly been on classic boats that have UK registration (both Pt1 and SSR) including those built prior to WW2. One of which, I am certain, was inspected and registered post Brexit. That boat would have not complied with RCD, even had it been stripped to the last frame and started again. How would such an old vessel comply for registration if the OP's plastic thingy dose not?
westernman
Well-known member
Was it imported into the UK?
If not, no need for it to comply to RCD II, RCD (I) or anything.
Poignard
Well-known member
When that's been answered, I have another question.
If a yacht, built in the UK in 1967, and UK Part 1 registered since it was built, sailed from the UK in 2014 and did not return until, say, 2024, having maintained its British registry, would it deemed to have been exported and will it therefore be treated on its return as a new import?
If a yacht, built in the UK in 1967, and UK Part 1 registered since it was built, sailed from the UK in 2014 and did not return until, say, 2024, having maintained its British registry, would it deemed to have been exported and will it therefore be treated on its return as a new import?
Graham376
Well-known member
If it returns under the same ownership, Returned Goods applies. If under new ownership then VAT payable.
Tranona
Well-known member
Again registration is irrelevant. It depends. If it has changed hands while outside the UK, then yes it will have lost its UK VAT paid status and be treated as a new import and be subject to VAT and certification - although it is unclear as yet how this works because the rules only came in this year. If it is under the same ownership as your boat is then as Graham says you can claim RGR and no more formalities. Just report to HMRC as normal. In this case you do not have to be UK resident nor even citizen as this does not affect VAT status.
Tranona
Well-known member
The devil is in the detail. Once again registration is nothing to do with import. There are ways in which a boat can be allowed into the UK on a temporary basis without being formally imported - boats specifically brought in for racing, owned by a non resident, here for work to be carried out under one of the recognised schemes before being re-exported for example.
Rappey
Well-known member
Is this the same thing ?
WHAT BOATS DO NOT REQUIRE UKCA OR CE CERTIFICATION?
Not all boats need a UKCA or CE marking. For instance, those vessels that have operated in EU/EEA countries prior to June 1998, plus boats built for personal use only, are exempt. Other types of vessels include hydrofoils, traditional canoes, pedalos, kayaks, sailing surfboards, historical boats, racing boats and gondolas.
dunedin
Well-known member
Again UKCA / CE certification has nothing to do with REGISTRATION. Only with importation.
The UKCA / CE certification is also different from MCA CODING, which is needed for commercial things like charter and training boats.
westernman
Well-known member
Please read and understand Example 2 from here:-
What the indefinite delay of the UKCA mark means for boat buying and selling - Practical Boat Owner
In particular:-
"If the boat is coming to the UK today, it must comply with the regulations today."
What the indefinite delay of the UKCA mark means for boat buying and selling - Practical Boat Owner
In particular:-
"If the boat is coming to the UK today, it must comply with the regulations today."
dunedin
Well-known member
That article is very informative but scary - because the UK abandoned CE in favour of our own flavour UKCA, but now has delayed UKCA for new craft, it will likely mean there are no organisations prepared to pay the costs to be a UKCA assessor. Hence it may become impossible to get a boat UKCA certified, even if wanted to.
The concluding paragraph, written by the UK‘s leading (only?) professional expert in this area ……….
“This gold-plated UK industry now looks to be fading away, leaving a future where a UK manufacturer needs a certificate from a European certifier, to show it is compliant with EU Directives, that the UK has no voice in shaping, in order to sell their UK-made products in the UK.”
Tranona
Well-known member
Do you have the actual source for that? No problems with the second list of exemptions, nor the home builds, but that is the first time I have seen the pre 1998 exemption. Not shown in the link I posted in 19.
j24jam
Active member
This is something we offer to our clients, so if OP is interested we can discuss their requirements. It is not particularly difficult to arrange and has saved our clients hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years.
But as Tranona says, any uplift in value should be declared on re-import to EU and taxes paid where required.
Rappey
Well-known member
Sure.
CE & UKCA Categories. A Brief Explanation for Boat Owners | Val Wyatt this one has intersting explanation
When is CE certification for sailboats required
The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017
Seems that if you build your own boat and dont sell it for 5 years it is also exempt
westernman
Well-known member
None of those links answer the question as to what certification is needed when you import a secondhand boat from the EU or other 3rd country.
Of course you can go in to your builder of choice in the EU and buy a new boat there and import that to the UK with no problems apart from having to pay VAT (but you won't have to pay it in the EU).
The link I provided above said that the boat needed to comply to the current Recreational Craft Regulations when imported into the UK. I.e. RCD II/2013 which entered into force in 2017.
An older boat imported or placed on the market in the EU from 1998 until 2012 or may be even later will comply with the old RCD from 1998 and will not have been certified to comply to RCD II/2013.
It will need to be certified. The link I gave was from a company which can do that. A boat dating pre 2010 will almost certainly not comply to RCD II/2013. In particular the new emissions requirements for engines which were not in RCD/1998.
After 2013 up to 2017 you can't be sure, but you might get lucky.
I have not seen anything to contradict the link gave.
