Reefing the main down wind

[Daydream believer]

I have reefed the main in exactly that manner in large seas with over 40 knots true and mid 30s apparent by centring and sheeting in the boom as hard as possible. With a decent set of cars and intermediates on a fully battened main and single line reefing with decent blocks rather than just cringles it was no problem and is the reason that I am wary about in mast and in boom reefing although the latter not so much.

But were you heading down wind or up wind? the post suggested heading dead down wind.

 

[geem]

There are always emergencies & one learns to deal with them. I have had my fair share of engine & prop issues.
Dealing with it comes with experience. You will find that over time.
In the past I have sheeted the jib in hard & set the aeries to keep it feathering into the wind. It does actually work quite well because my boat sails well to windward on its ST jib in fairly difficult North sea & Channel seas up to F8. Proper F9 is rare in summer sailing for me.
You say that turning into seas can be dangerous, but I have avoided gybing in 4 m seas by chicken gybing. I can do this very quickly between waves because my boat spins very quickly. A tub like yours would probably not do that, so your situation would be different. Plus seas in blue water will be different. Higher but, presumably, further apart.
But we can all quote tales of big seas - bit like fishermen & the biggest catch. Meaningless really.

I don't know why you feel the need to talk in such terms. Be nice. It's not hard. Learning new skills is a good thing. Boats do handle differently to each other and some skippers may find their boats don't do certain things as well as others.
Seas in an ocean can be long and even or very much like coastal waters around the UK. A recent trip from Azores to Ireland saw us with 35knts and sea were very nasty and confused due to a low passing close to the North of us. We had large seas from two directions about 90 degrees apart. There was no pattern. Turning up wind, even in a full race boat with super quick turning ability would have been risky. The point of this thread was to show skippers that reefing down wind is possible. It may need practise and it may not work for everybody but it's a good option if it works. It can reduce the risk of turning through big seas, you don't need a working engine and you don't see the increase in apparent wind as you head from down wind to up wind

 

[Fr J Hackett]

But were you heading down wind or up wind? the post suggested heading dead down wind.

Almost dead down wind.

 

[Daydream believer]

I don't know why you feel the need to talk in such terms.

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Daydream believer]

Almost dead down wind.

So if you sheet in hard dead down wind what stops the wind flipping from side to side as the boat corkscrews & rolls thus causing the boat to roll side to side in an indeterminate way?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I thought this was about reducing sail while sailing downwind without heading up ..... something which if you can get your boat to do it is much preferable to rounding up with the resultant increase in apparent wind and the transition from surfing with the waves to driving into them - if anything it spooks the crew and they might spill their G&T on my upholstery.

No one said anything about doing all this with a rope round the prop and no engine ?!?

... Why not add an Orca chomping on the rudder ... and a parting backstay for good measure .... see how your modern racy boat copes then eh?!!!

 

[dunedin]

There has been discussion on this forum previously, about reefing downwind. Something we always do.
I found this on Utube, and it explains nicely the way to do it from the cockpit on a modern boat. Hope this might help others try it out

It does seem very odd to post this video under the title of “reefing downwind”
You can clearly see the mainsail is being back winded by the jib, as the boat is clearly sailing on a reach - and with the apparent wind ahead of the beam.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

So if you sheet in hard dead down wind what stops the wind flipping from side to side as the boat corkscrews & rolls thus causing the boat to roll side to side in an indeterminate way?

The jib / Genoa will maintain your heading and yes the main will flutter but if you have your main halyard marked then it's a very quick operation to ease to the mark and pull down the reef. ease the main sheet and off you go. I used to prefer to do it on auto helm or Hydrovane rather than use a helmsman.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Downwind reefing is difficult on my boat.
Mainsail: Fully battened, sliders between batten cars, batten cars are slider type, all controls at mast except main sheet, masthead rig, single spreaders, no stack pack.
What I have found to work: broad reach or run, no difference but head up slightly from dead run, sheet main in to 45 degrees, release kicker and take off boom weight with topping lift, pull on kicker, may have to adjust kicker, topping lift if there is too much twist, lower halyard, haul down hard on luff by hand, get the reefing cringle on, tighten up halyard, tighten up reefing pendant, slacken topping lift, adjust kicker and sheet. Gybe preventer is always used down wind, so that is adjusted as required at start and end.

I always get there, but it can be a bit of a swear fest, as it sometimes requires to wait for the lull. I am considering adding elastic between the reefing cringles, to act as a messenger for a line to aid pulling down the luff, like the second to third reefing pendant on booms where first reef is required for third reef.

What I have wondered, but not done, is a significant amount of mainsail scandalizing on topping lift, really hoist the boom on topping lift and flop the sail. Would that reduce pressure on the sliders even more? It is easier after the luff groove is cleaned, about every two years.

Interestingly, these guys also do the partial lower, the partial wind in the reefing pendent, alternating lowering and pendent hauling. Subscription service https://www.morganscloud.com/2010/11/19/reefing-a-sailboat/

 

[Fr J Hackett]

So if you sheet in hard dead down wind what stops the wind flipping from side to side as the boat corkscrews & rolls thus causing the boat to roll side to side in an indeterminate way?

It doesn't corkscrew or at least my V34 didn't and by sheet in hard and centre the boom that's what I mean pull it down as hard as you can it will flutter but if the boat is directionally stable with some jib out it will hold its course.

 

[B27]

My boat is a fairly small bilge keeler, so when I want to reef downwind, I generally don't want to go near DDW, to avoid rolling.
Particularly at the point when the kicker is eased.
Generally, down wind, sea conditions have a big influence on wanting to reef the main.

I find that heading up so the main is not pressed hard against the shrouds with the sheet almost fully eased works OK.
Just a little tension on the sheet to avoid the sail flogging.
Then dump the kicker and quickly pull in as much reefing line as possible raising the boom some..
Then drop the halyard to the mark and pull the tack line down.
Then get the rest of the reef line done.
Whack the kicker on.

This tries to minimise the sail (and boom) being out of control, in case I need to time the moves around waves.

It's only relevant to small boats where you can lift the boom with the reefing line, not big boats where the boom weighs a ton.
It can be very quick. Bish bash bosh.

A couple of times I've gone straight for the second reef and then unrolled a bit more genoa.
I'd have normally rolled in some genoa before thinking about reefing the main, and depending on the sae state, probably take in some more as a prelude to heading up for the reef.

It helps to have the halyard cleated off at the new mark, I put it on an old horn cleat, then just open the clutch.

Sailing along the Devon coast, the wind and waves are often out of line, so every time can be a bit different.

 

[ProDave]

So here is what we did a few weeks ago. Sailing downwind on Loch Ness in increasing wind. Wind was straight down the loch and it's not very wide, we were already sailing off direct downwind to avoid an accidental gybe which would be violent in the wind. But each intentional gybe was getting more and more wild. Wind was in the order of 20 knots, yes of course we should have reefed earlier. No shelter for about 2 hours (Urquahart bay)

So we started the donk, sheeted in the main sheet to bring the main sail to the centre and motored dead down wind. And we were pleasantly surprised to find it was possible to pull the main sail down to reef 2 like that without trouble. We later repeated that to drop the main all the way again avoiding turning into the wind.

Of course all boats are different, what worked for us may not work on every boat, but it is good to know what your particula boat can do.

 

[Daydream believer]

It doesn't corkscrew or at least my V34 didn't and by sheet in hard and centre the boom that's what I mean pull it down as hard as you can it will flutter but if the boat is directionally stable with some jib out it will hold its course.

There again I would have thought the centre of effort of the jib to be offset to the c of e of the boat & immediately want to round it up
But if it works for you then so be it.
But the V 34 is not very quick, but directionally stable boat. I assume it would take some time to round up. That gives you time to adjust. I cannot leave my helm for a second & my boat has no directional stability whatsoever. Thus making it hard work.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

There again I would have thought the centre of effort of the jib to be offset to the c of e of the boat & immediately want to round it up
But if it works for you then so be it.
But the V 34 is not very quick, but directionally stable boat. I assume it would take some time to round up. That gives you time to adjust. I cannot leave my helm for a second & my boat has no directional stability whatsoever. Thus making it hard work.

That V34 did a 197 miles run in 24 hours in those conditions and we had steak and chips in the evening as well.

 

[Daydream believer]

That V34 did a 197 miles run in 24 hours in those conditions and we had steak and chips in the evening as well.

I was in Eyemouth for 10 days having been assisted by the RNLI. I was nervous about continuing to Blythe due to windy conditions plus no chart plotter & only an Imray C chart on a Yeoman,
I was worried about passing the Farns & sailing in general & quite frankly had lost a bit of my nerve.
A very experienced sailor in his V36 invited me to sail in company with him to Blyth. (There were 2 sailors on board one owned a 36 & one had a 34)
He set off under full sail. I with 2 reefs. They set off first & as I had to reef. I was a mile behind. By the time we got to Holy Island I was so far in front I had to turn round & go back.
The same again at the Farns
After the Farns I could not go slow enough so having got over my nerves I left them & arrived at Blyth
I was in the RNYC lightship having a beer when they arrived.
2 days later they had swopped over to the V34 & were sailng to the Tyne to get fuel. I just blitzed them. Both boats sailed like dogs.
Obviously ocean sailing is different and it would not be the same offshore. But i am far from impressed

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I was in Eyemouth for 10 days having been assisted by the RNLI. I was nervous about continuing to Blythe due to windy conditions plus no chart plotter & only an Imray C chart on a Yeoman,
I was worried about passing the Farns & sailing in general & quite frankly had lost a bit of my nerve.
A very experienced sailor in his V36 invited me to sail in company with him to Blyth. (There were 2 sailors on board one owned a 36 & one had a 34)
He set off under full sail. I with 2 reefs. They set off first & as I had to reef. I was a mile behind. By the time we got to Holy Island I was so far in front I had to turn round & go back.
The same again at the Farns
After the Farns I could not go slow enough so having got over my nerves I left them & arrived at Blyth
I was in the RNYC lightship having a beer when they arrived.
2 days later they had swopped over to the V34 & were sailng to the Tyne to get fuel. I just blitzed them. Both boats sailed like dogs.
Obviously ocean sailing is different and it would not be the same offshore. But i am far from impressed

Yet you have to start the engine to reef

 

[Daydream believer]

Yet you have to start the engine to reef

Condition dependent & I always have a choice
I tend to make it easy on myself, as I sail SH
Why make it harder?

 

[Daydream believer]

That V34 did a 197 miles run in 24 hours in those conditions and we had steak and chips in the evening as well.

But the average over the whole trip was What?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

But the average over the whole trip was What?

Probably about 6.5Kts

 

[Daydream believer]

So you averaged 156 miles a day. Interesting
So what is the average for a 40ft yacht running down wind in the ARC all the time in the ARC? 150 per day?