Reef line storeage

[Buck Turgidson]

I’ve got a little bag tied to the mast foot. Just stuff en in.

 

[dgadee]

If the day comes when I feel unable, either through fear or infirmity, to leave the cockpit then that signals the end of my sailing days (at least as skipper of my own boat).

It's all very well, and extremely convenient, to have all lines brought back to the cockpit but if something goes wrong that necessitates you leaving the cockpit and going forward to sort it out, and you can't or daren't go, because you're not used to doing it, and there's no-one to go in your place, you are in one hell of a mess.

I don't see how how B (can't go up to sort it out) follows from A (not going up for every reef). If needed I can go up front, but prefer not to these days. My Dehler has everything brought back to the cockpit central electric winch and I've been sailing it happily for 10 years and haven't found my manhood questioned yet. I have just brought lines back on the Seawolf and neither there have I felt threatened by a lack of manliness.

 

[Poignard]

I don't see how how B (can't go up to sort it out) follows from A (not going up for every reef). If needed I can go up front, but prefer not to these days. My Dehler has everything brought back to the cockpit central electric winch and I've been sailing it happily for 10 years and haven't found my manhood questioned yet. I have just brought lines back on the Seawolf and neither there have I felt threatened by a lack of manliness.

Nothing at all to do with 'manliness'. Skippering yachts has long since ceased being the preserve of men only. The courage and endurance shown by the many women racing skippers has put paid to that idea.

But I was reacting to someone saying he would not 'endanger' himself by going forward to put in a reef.

I would think myself, and more importantly, my wife, endangered if I was unwilling or unable (due to infirmity or lack of practice) to move safely around the deck when I had to.

More demanding than going to the mast to reef is setting a storm jib. You can't do that from the cockpit.

Or something I'm sure we all do regularly, go forward to rig/unrig a motor-sailing cone.

 

[Daydream believer]

More demanding than going to the mast to reef is setting a storm jib. You can't do that from the cockpit.

Or something I'm sure we all do regularly, go forward to rig/unrig a motor-sailing cone.

2 points here
1) cannot set a storm jib if you have not got one How many typical sailors do have one?

2) If you are motor sailing it would be very unlikely to be reefing weather so a trip to the mast is not so difficult. (Of course, crossing a shipping lane may need a different strategy)If I was motoring into serious chop & head wind, then I lower my mainsail, as I would not want to have my laminate sail flapping like a flag. So motor cone not needed.

I cannot understand why others can be seen motoring with the main up doing nothing. Nothing wrong with using the engine. But with the main up doing zilch. To me it always seems unfair to the sail

 

[Buck Turgidson]

2 points here
1) cannot set a storm jib if you have not got one How many typical sailors do have one?

2) If you are motor sailing it would be very unlikely to be reefing weather so a trip to the mast is not so difficult. (Of course, crossing a shipping lane may need a different strategy)If I was motoring into serious chop & head wind, then I lower my mainsail, as I would not want to have my laminate sail flapping like a flag. So motor cone not needed.

I cannot understand why others can be seen motoring with the main up doing nothing. Nothing wrong with using the engine. But with the main up doing zilch. To me it always seems unfair to the sail

Keeping the main up makes a big difference in any waves to my boat. The only time I drop it to motor is if it’s flat calm.

 

[Daydream believer]

Keeping the main up makes a big difference in any waves to my boat. The only time I drop it to motor is if it’s flat calm.

In what way?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Roll

 

[Poignard]

As a 'steadying' sail.

Some motor-sailers have them.

 

[fredrussell]

I have been coiling braid on braid for decades. No twists if done correctly.

What’s the correct way then?

 

[RunAgroundHard]

What’s the correct way then?

I am not going to teach you how to coil a rope. However, you can find the method I use in the following publications: -

RYA Parctical Course Notes, Competent Crew, Page 35
RYA Practical Course Notes, Inland Cruising, Page 58
RYA Proactical Course Notes, Motor Cruising, Page 21

Now, the above publications actually refer to older syllabi and the books can only be bought second hand on eBay and such like. The lines used in these books suggest 3 strand rope as sketched by Dick Everitt.

To check whether I am out of date or not, I have just checked the latest edition of the RYA eBook Competent Crew Skills (E-CCPCN) and that too shows the same methods as above. The series of sketches in the eBook definitely represents braid on braid style of rope.

I don't disagree that the method I use could induce kinks in the rope if not coiled correctly, but if done correctly, the kinks flick out the running end of the rope. I also don't disagree that flaking and figure of eight coiling is a reliable way of coiling a rope. I do disagree with the the point that you and others make that if you don't flake or figure of eight other methods will lead to kinks that jam in blocks, it is wrong to claim that.

 

[ylop]

If the day comes when I feel unable, either through fear or infirmity, to leave the cockpit then that signals the end of my sailing days (at least as skipper of my own boat).

I don't think you need to "feel unable" in order to recognise that there is some inherently increased risk in moving from sitting comfortably in the cockpit to walking along the side deck and then working at the mast. Depending on the conditions, the boat and the person, that risk may be so low that you consider it insignificant but it is not zero compared to staying in the cockpit to do it (on a suitably rigged boat). If losing your footing and getting an injury has say a 1:10,000 chance and you do it 1000 times it starts to become fairly likely that one day it will be painful. Of course, if being out of practice at going forward increases the chance of injury doing so to 1:1,000 - you better make sure you keep the frequency really low so it doesn't end up more dangerous in the long run when you inevitably do need to go and free a jammed line or similar.

 

[Poignard]

It makes a big difference having something solid to hang onto.

My coachroof has almost vertical sides (10 degrees) and full length teak grabrails, throughbolted to the coachroof. So the grabrails are about 300mm above the side decks.

This makes it easier and safer to move along the deck in bad weather.

One thing I would like to fit, if I ever find the time, is a boom gallows at the after end of the coachroof. In addition to its primary function it would be a good hndhold when clambering out of the cockpit.

Another improvement I have in mind is jackstays on the coachroof instead of, or in addition to, those on the side decks.

 

[dgadee]

It makes a big difference having something solid to hang onto.

My coachroof has almost vertical sides (10 degrees) and full length teak grabrails, throughbolted to the coachroof. So the grabrails are about 300mm above the side decks.

This makes it easier and safer to move along the deck in bad weather.

One thing I would like to fit, if I ever find the time, is a boom gallows at the after end of the coachroof. In addition to its primary function it would be a good hndhold when clambering out of the cockpit.

Another improvement I have in mind is jackstays on the coachroof instead of, or in addition to, those on the side decks.

Why don't you just send your wife up there?

 

[Poignard]

Why don't you just send your wife up there?

Well I do but it's getting harder to find replacements.

 

[PabloPicasso]

Wow, a simple question about tidying reefing line tails. I never expected that to light the taper

 

[Refueler]

I disagree. A simple rope coil correctly performed removes the twist and kink risk. it doesn’t do what you say.

Actually both of you are right ...

If the coils are made without free end stretched / laid out and able to rotate - a twist IS imparted to the rope. That is why any good seaman will usually lay out the rope or stream it astern to allow it turn.
Yotties get around this by making fig 8's to avoid the twists - but they have to remember that a RIGHT hand lay is OPPOSITE 8's to normal ...

 

[Refueler]

Wow, a simple question about tidying reefing line tails. I never expected that to light the taper

Its YBW .... what do you expect ....

Your Boating Wars

 

[Stemar]

I don't think you need to "feel unable" in order to recognise that there is some inherently increased risk in moving from sitting comfortably in the cockpit to walking along the side deck and then working at the mast. Depending on the conditions, the boat and the person, that risk may be so low that you consider it insignificant but it is not zero compared to staying in the cockpit to do it (on a suitably rigged boat). If losing your footing and getting an injury has say a 1:10,000 chance and you do it 1000 times it starts to become fairly likely that one day it will be painful. Of course, if being out of practice at going forward increases the chance of injury doing so to 1:1,000 - you better make sure you keep the frequency really low so it doesn't end up more dangerous in the long run when you inevitably do need to go and free a jammed line or similar.

Doing the RtI on a monohull showed me just how out of practice I am at moving around on a bouncing, heeling foredeck, but I was pleased to find I could still do it, even if not with much confidence.

 

[fredrussell]

Actually both of you are right ...

If the coils are made without free end stretched / laid out and able to rotate - a twist IS imparted to the rope.

No. It doesn’t matter what you do with the free end - a coiled rope has twist. If you imagine coiling a rope your way, then tying one end to a post and walking off holding the other end so rope uncoils as you walk off, all those coils will convert to twist as they disappear. It’s just physics. I don’t use three strand rope, so I can’t comment on that, but with braid on braid, if you coil a rope you have introduced twist.

 

[geem]

I don't think you need to "feel unable" in order to recognise that there is some inherently increased risk in moving from sitting comfortably in the cockpit to walking along the side deck and then working at the mast. Depending on the conditions, the boat and the person, that risk may be so low that you consider it insignificant but it is not zero compared to staying in the cockpit to do it (on a suitably rigged boat). If losing your footing and getting an injury has say a 1:10,000 chance and you do it 1000 times it starts to become fairly likely that one day it will be painful. Of course, if being out of practice at going forward increases the chance of injury doing so to 1:1,000 - you better make sure you keep the frequency really low so it doesn't end up more dangerous in the long run when you inevitably do need to go and free a jammed line or similar.

Different people perceive risk in different ways. Some people will never do what others do as they perceive the risk too high.
Individuals level of fitness varies hugely. For some people, going on deck to reef is just normal part of the sailing process. They do it often. They are physically fit and capable. The boat is set up for it. The perceived risk is minimal.
A friend sailed his 28ft yacht around the world singlehanded. All reefing is done at the mast. He wouldn't dream of bringing reefing back to the cockpit as he would lose the simplicity and robustness of the reefing system.
We all have different views of risk. Some people won't go on deck to rig a spinnaker or pole. We do it regularly with just me and the wife and a 165m2 spinnaker. We aren't crazy, we know the risks but we take precautions to minimise risk to OUR acceptable level.