prv
Well-Known Member
Ah, that makes sense. I don't know the place at all, but I'd got the impression it was one of the major ports of Belgium and so the possibility of it having no fuel berth had not occurred to me.
Pete
Red Diesel saga
- Thread starter Javelin
- Start date
Ah, that makes sense. I don't know the place at all, but I'd got the impression it was one of the major ports of Belgium and so the possibility of it having no fuel berth had not occurred to me.
Pete
westhinder
Well-Known Member
Correct.
Although, if you insisted, you probably might be able to buy some red diesel at the fishing basin behind the lock. But I guess they would be breaking the law selling to pleasure vessels.
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
deleted -already said
Rivers & creeks
Well-Known Member
What a short-sighted attitude.
At the moment, only the Belgians seem to be actively persuing this issue. But what when the EU rules against the UKs interpretation of the rules? Do you expect other countries to still turn a blind eye?
This issue will then need to be addressed - I, for one, would hate it if my future cruising would have to be confined to lake Solent and the south coast. And do you think, the French/Dutch/Germans would still visit here if there is nowhere for them to fuel?
Maybe it's short sighted but frankly there are much, much nicer places to visit. Meanwhile the pragmatic Dutch and the laissez faire French get our tourist pounds.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
And what will those of who reside at a marina where the rules state explicitly that we aren't allowed to handle fuel in cans do? It's a heritage dock with strict rules about fuel spillage etc, and handling fuel anywhere BUT the fuel dock is verboten. Given environmental regulations, I'd expect such rules to become more widespread in time. Furthermore, the dock is home to quite a lot of commercial vessels, and I'm sure that the sale of red diesel to commercial vessels is far greater than any potential sale of white diesel to non-commercial vessels would be. I use maybe 50 - 100 litres a year; they probably use 100 litres a trip!
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
there is so much to do in Ostende - you really should go there if you have not been. I am going for the paulusfestein this year again & I often spend up to 2 weeks at a time there. My last trip to ostend was my 60Th
It was the first foreign port I went to from Burnham 46 years ago so I do have an affinity with the place
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
Either pressure your marina to have two tanks or refuel from jerrycans after leaving the dock. If there's enough demand for two tanks, there's your solution, if not then you'd have to find a work round. If just about all the continentals can sort this out, why can't the UK?
arto
Well-Known Member
Spot on. As others have pointed out, if white diesel destroyed engines, there would be disabled boats all across Europe. Since, as you say, commercial users could be allowed to claim back tax from HMRC, the only people disadvantaged from a switch to fully taxed white diesel would be those of use using our boats for pleasure. That's a tax break that's hard to justify, in my opinion.
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Actually, I don't care a hoot what colour diesel you use. BUT! If I happen to go to the UK and have to fill up with red diesel, which is what is available, I am in breach of the law and face a hefty fine when checked at home.
You may be surprised to learn that Belgian Customs regularly check Belgian yachts for the use of red diesel.
I circumnavigated the UK two years ago and had no choice but to use red diesel. Now, nearly two years on, the red dye is still perfectly traceable. If I happen to get checked, I will be fined. By the way, did you know Belgian Customs regularly check cars and lorries, both Belgian and foreign, for red Diesel? Not at the border, but anywhere on the motorways. Recent figures show that 1.4% are found using red diesel.
France, The Netherlands, Belgium,... All used to allow the use of red diesel for boats. All switched to white when the rules changed, without fuss, without outcry. I fail to see why that wouldn't be possible in the UK. But then you are still driving on the wrong side of the road, so it must be a cultural thing
And its atitudes like yours that will see the forthcoming referendum giving a no to europe! Just because some jumped up little oik in Brussels decides that the whole of Europe should dance to his tune doesnt mean we will! We see the atitude of Frau Merkel is now starting to change! The thought of BMW, Audi and Mercedes facing import tariffs is starting to make her think twice! Market forces always rule and when peeps have had enough of something they change it!
So let me see what does Brussels export?
S
Heckler
Well-Known Member
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Ive got a better idea. why dont we get them to allow red diesel in boats? Same simplistic argument!
S
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Carp mostly!!!!
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Yeah! Vote to get out, have the same rules as Norway etc, a simple trading agreement is what we signed up for! I cant see the mighty (they think!) German car industry wanting to start import tariffs!
In fact it will be interesting to see the Grexit thing panning out! Will they stop exporting expensive cars to Greece because they aint in the union? I think not!
The argument that Belguim will screw us further if we are out doesnt wash! What happens if an American pitches up with red diesel? do they screw them? We will be in a better position, the argument at the mo is that we have to abide by EU rules because we are in, if we are out then we will just be another visitor country abiding by OUR rules and they can do sweet FA about that!
So lets all vote OUT! There is a v good thought provoking article in the Mail today about it!
S
Rivers & creeks
Well-Known Member
Time to get out. A simple single market agreement would have brought 90% of the existing benefits of the EU with only 10% of the grief it now gives us. But a group of politicos tried an experiment in unification and it's all gone horribly wrong.
Scomber
Well-Known Member
that lot will try any 'experiments' if it guarantees them all huge fat salaries for lots of meetings to decide b****r all !
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
If I go to Belgium with red diesei staining my tank fuel it does not follow that I was using red fuel to get to Belgium. Only that I once had red in the tank. I may have topped up with white before I left UK. I will be able to show receipts ( I have loads from filling my car so how would they know the difference)
The Belgians cannot fine me for using red in the UK ( or can they?)
So if I demonstrated that there was no attempt to use red in Belgium could they fine me?
I can show that i bought white in UK for the trip. I can show that I used it to travel from Belgium. I can show that my spare cans have white in them ready for topping up. I can explain why there is a red tint in my fuel
How would that stand up in a Belgian's mind
The Belgians cannot fine me for using red in the UK ( or can they?)
So if I demonstrated that there was no attempt to use red in Belgium could they fine me?
I can show that i bought white in UK for the trip. I can show that I used it to travel from Belgium. I can show that my spare cans have white in them ready for topping up. I can explain why there is a red tint in my fuel
How would that stand up in a Belgian's mind
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
That's the problem! Rupert Murdoch's papers have poured so much capitalist bile against the E U in the Times, Mail and Sun that ordinary people have been brainwashed so that a balanced objective view is very hard to obtain. I seriously fear that if we leave the E U we will end up the 55(?) state of the USA. His papers are against all the social legislation that the EU that protects workers and already pensions have been degraded, because firms were given "pension holidays", employment rights withdrawn etc. A lot of the EU regulations are gold plated by our civil service. The U.S. Broke the British Empire during World War 2 and the special relationship is really so we are lap dogs to the U.S.! I'm not sure at this stage how I will vote in the Referendum- I want to see all sides of the argument not one man's papers' prejudices
On topic, I've been in Ostende for a week with red diesel in the tanks and have not seen any officialdom.
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westhinder
Well-Known Member
B
If, as you say, market forces rule, you would be well advised to have a few serious discussions with people in international businesses and see if they think being out of the EU will be so advantageous for the UK.
pagoda
Well-Known Member
Norway is a very boat/sea centred country. No fuss about marine diesel there, and about 90p/litre at the moment. In fact my boat in Peterhead still has a tank of green Norwegian diesel
Clearly most of the potential issue on mainland Europe is use of marine diesel in road vehicles?? - and loss of revenue? It is as equally difficult to put red diesel in cars as it is road diesel into a boat's tank, so unless somebody has a huge excess of diesel in cans, a spare 20litres or so is really just a safety/back up . I always carry some spare diesel, but not much more than 20-30l.
Has anybody been prosecuted (or even told off?) yet?
