Red Diesel saga

[westhinder]

X

I'm in the process of buying a boat at the moment and she has two completely seperate fuel tanks. Either can supply the engine but only one of them can supply the heating system. Seems attractive to clean one out and use it only for white (or French yellow) deisel and put red in the other. (Interestingly she has always been based on the east coast and made frequent voyages to Belgium and Holland. I will have to ask the vendor if this was his intention.) But I suppose there would always be some cross contamination by returned fuel every time you switched from one tank to the other.

I think that the arrangement of your tanks would have to be the other way around in order to satisfy the strict interpretation of the law: one tank only for the engine, filled with white, another tank for heating, filled with red. The engine tank would be allowed to be used for heating, the heating tank would not be allowed to be used for the engine. If the heating tank could be used for the engine as well, the suspicion would be that you were trying to cheat and you would get rapped on the basis of both tanks' combined volume.

 

[eddystone]

I assume the resistance to using white diesel for leisure boats is from the supply chain rather than users, at least on cost grounds. I buy red diesel from American Wharf on the Itchen and it's pretty similiar to the price for road diesel. OTOH the red (heating oil) diesel I buy for my tank at home is about half that price.

 

[prv]

Because the red in your tank would stain the fuel & if you were checked again you might be deemed as having red. Hopefully the receipts from Blankenburge will be enough for customs.

So why wouldn't the equivalent receipt from Oostende be as good?

Pete

 

[bobgarrett]

We went East last year and planned to avoid Belgium but the weather made popping in desirable.
Having arrived in Belgium via France we were unsure of the need to file a Schengen form. We got one anyway and filled it in but then could not find anyone to give it to. In the end we found a Customs Office which was all locked up so we stuffed it in the letter box and kept a copy.
On our way back we also popped into Belgium and being short of fuel asked in a marina where we might get some. We were told they could only offer red diesel as they had it for heating! We declined.

For what it is worth, I agree that leaving the EU would make little difference as they could then then still interpret the use of red diesel as using (local) heating fuel for propulsion. Why we persist in this lower tax diesel for boats I have little idea other than a certain British pig-headedness. Furthermore, commercial organisations could get tax back by filing returns as commercial bodies do trucks', buses', coaches' and cars' fuel.

 

[sailorman]

I assume the resistance to using white diesel for leisure boats is from the supply chain rather than users, at least on cost grounds. I buy red diesel from American Wharf on the Itchen and it's pretty similiar to the price for road diesel. OTOH the red (heating oil) diesel I buy for my tank at home is about half that price.

Red is generally more expensive that road pump white, our marina have fame free red ( so im told ) & the garage nxt door is cheaper

 

[Tranona]

Why we persist in this lower tax diesel for boats I have little idea other than a certain British pig-headedness. Furthermore, commercial organisations could get tax back by filing returns as commercial bodies do trucks', buses', coaches' and cars' fuel.

Some of the background to the UK government stance is in post #73. There are sound reasons for the position, although not everybody agrees with them, particularly the tiny number of people who take their UK based yachts to other states in the EU. However, apart from the odd problem with Belgium and Holland from time to time this does not appear to be sufficient reason to inconvenience the rest of the UK users and incur substantial cost to duplicate supplies in every port in the UK.

 

[NormanS]

I assume the resistance to using white diesel for leisure boats is from the supply chain rather than users, at least on cost grounds. I buy red diesel from American Wharf on the Itchen and it's pretty similiar to the price for road diesel. OTOH the red (heating oil) diesel I buy for my tank at home is about half that price.

Do you ever ask yourself, and your Itchen supplier, why this should be? Presumably they do 60/40.

 

[NormanS]

Some of the background to the UK government stance is in post #73. There are sound reasons for the position, although not everybody agrees with them, particularly the tiny number of people who take their UK based yachts to other states in the UK. However, apart from the odd problem with Belgium and Holland from time to time this does not appear to be sufficient reason to inconvenience the rest of the UK users and incur substantial cost to duplicate supplies in every port in the UK.

+1.

 

[eddystone]

Do you ever ask yourself, and your Itchen supplier, why this should be? Presumably they do 60/40.

Because they can I guess; it's not that easy to get a yacht onto the forecourt of the nearest service station so captive market.

 

[sailorman]

Because they can I guess; it's not that easy to get a yacht onto the forecourt of the nearest service station so captive market.

in Le Havre the fuel is from a road side pump with a long hose ( too short @ LW, guess how i know )

 

[theoldsalt]

Thank you ...I didn't know it had been covered before .... theoldsalt appears to be a trifle pompous ... maybe he's just sad and lonely and the forums are his only pleasure.

People would know if they took the trouble to search the forums before posting questions.
I follow threads to learn new information not to read repeatedly the same old information over and over again.
I apologise if some readers are offended but it's typical of posters too lazy to search the forum for answers to questions previously posted but expect us to do the work for them.

P.S. sorry for the thread drift but I felt the abusive comment warranted a response.

 

[Koeketiene]

Thanks Peter that was clearly where I was getting confused.

A 3440 euro fine would slightly put a dampener on things if that were the case :ambivalence:

Conclusion: it's cheaper to get fined in Belgium than it is in Holland

 

[awol]

People would know if they took the trouble to search the forums before posting questions.
I follow threads to learn new information not to read repeatedly the same old information over and over again.
I apologise if some readers are offended but it's typical of posters too lazy to search the forum for answers to questions previously posted but expect us to do the work for them.

I am so looking forward to your next post if it dares to pose a question.
Just as magazines repeat the same articles over and over again so it is inevitable forum posters will cover the same material and ask the same questions. You might as well ban all questions as they or something very similar will already have been asked. Similarly, your somewhat petulant response echoes past posts from other grumpy gits. The answer is simple - go and do something useful with your time!

 

[prv]

You might as well ban all questions as they or something very similar will already have been asked.

...and then the forum will die from lack of traffic, as inevitably happens when people with filing-cabinet minds try to formalise them into rigidly-categorised sterile information banks instead of communities of human beings.

Pete

 

[PetiteFleur]

Whilst Belgium was the only country to enforce the EU rules so far, I expect other countries to follow suit should the final EU ruling go against Britain.
This would effectively put the continent out of bounds for UK yachtsmen and the UK out of bounds for continental yachtsmen.

As for every quayside supplier... how many supply to both commercial/fishing/working/etc... boats and yachts?

My local boatyard stopped supplying to yachts when the 60:40 ruling was introduced as the paperwork was too much hassle. I've used white diesel since then, just used 2 x 10l cans on a regular basis. Usually carry 10l of white on board, and has been cheaper than red at the discounted price. Based on the R Deben.

 

[The_man_from_ABBA]

So why wouldn't the equivalent receipt from Oostende be as good?

Pete

According to Reeds, you can't get fuel in Ostend.
It would seem, the only places you can bunker are Nieuwpoort, Blankenberge and Zeebrugge

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Why should every quayside supplier of marine diesel in the country have to change their business, so that a few yachties can go and visit Belgium? It's not just marinas, it would be every supplier in every port in the UK.

Too right, it's easier just to take Belgium off the visit list. I like the steaks at Nieuwport KYCN but it's just not worth the hassle. I'm sure they're busy enough without us Brits and there are certainly nicer places to cruise to.

 

[Javelin]

Yup - They wouldn't sell me any diesel at Oostende, however it is possible to get some via containers from a roadside garage but its quite a treck.

This is why I went up coast to Blankenburg, they have a fuel berth on the right on the way in.

 

[pks1702]

Conclusion: it's cheaper to get fined in Belgium than it is in Holland

:encouragement:

I can't argue with that logic.

In the past I have headed into KYCN Niewpoort and filled up with White to be seen as doing the right thing, kept the receipt with the duty paid one from the UK. The Douane nearly tripped over our ensign at Blakenberge and totally ignored us.

 

[The_man_from_ABBA]

Too right, it's easier just to take Belgium off the visit list. I like the steaks at Nieuwport KYCN but it's just not worth the hassle. I'm sure they're busy enough without us Brits and there are certainly nicer places to cruise to.

What a short-sighted attitude.
At the moment, only the Belgians seem to be actively persuing this issue. But what when the EU rules against the UKs interpretation of the rules? Do you expect other countries to still turn a blind eye?
This issue will then need to be addressed - I, for one, would hate it if my future cruising would have to be confined to lake Solent and the south coast. And do you think, the French/Dutch/Germans would still visit here if there is nowhere for them to fuel?