DAKA
Well-Known Member
Re: On a slightly tenuous link........
Lets both hope I am wrong on this /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Lets both hope I am wrong on this /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Red diesel fight lost!
- Thread starter longjohnsilver
- Start date
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I see that the Commission's decision on the derogation specifically defines pleasure craft not to include craft used for commercial purposes and for the carriage of passengers.
Does this mean that charter vessels will still be able to take advantage of red diesel and is it worthwile getting boats coded in order to be registered as charter boats?
Even though I am now doing my boating in the Med, I am deeply saddened by this decision. If marine diesel really does go up to 85p/l or more (well in excess of anywhere in the W Med btw), it will force many peeps already boating on a budget out of the sport altogether
It will be interesting to see what reaction there is from the manufacturers at LIBS
Does this mean that charter vessels will still be able to take advantage of red diesel and is it worthwile getting boats coded in order to be registered as charter boats?
Even though I am now doing my boating in the Med, I am deeply saddened by this decision. If marine diesel really does go up to 85p/l or more (well in excess of anywhere in the W Med btw), it will force many peeps already boating on a budget out of the sport altogether
It will be interesting to see what reaction there is from the manufacturers at LIBS
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Me too, Martyn. I have been toying with the idea of bringing the boat back to the UK in a season or two but this decision removes any possible advantage to doing so. Not only will the UK have the most expensive marine diesel in Europe but the costliest marinas and the lousiest weather as well
Oen
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If we were French, we would have blockaded Southampton by now. Disrupting container traffic for a few days would get someone's attention. A line of boats from the end of the QEII terminal, past Hythe Knock, and to the outer marker at Hythe Marina, can't be more than 1/2 mile.
[/ QUOTE ]
Count me in. Name the day.
If we were French, we would have blockaded Southampton by now. Disrupting container traffic for a few days would get someone's attention. A line of boats from the end of the QEII terminal, past Hythe Knock, and to the outer marker at Hythe Marina, can't be more than 1/2 mile.
[/ QUOTE ]
Count me in. Name the day.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Mike
A charter boat is exempt as its commercial.
But it would only appear its exempt when it is on charter.
You can even claim the existing duty back every year.
So can someone please explain how you volunteer to pay full duty on that part of the tank you are using for personal use? This was one of the problems highlighted in the submission to the EU.
A charter boat is exempt as its commercial.
But it would only appear its exempt when it is on charter.
You can even claim the existing duty back every year.
So can someone please explain how you volunteer to pay full duty on that part of the tank you are using for personal use? This was one of the problems highlighted in the submission to the EU.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
The problem with a blokcade is how it would be painted to the public - we would lose public support in seconds.
duncan
Well-Known Member
70p is the tipping point for me - beyond that it makes economic sense to move my boating to a Med base.
For me this is of course a factor of (1) living near Gatwick (2) living a long way from the boat (3)the cost of keeping a boat in Poole and the family growing up so that it's no longer 5, 6 or 7 airfares!
For me this is of course a factor of (1) living near Gatwick (2) living a long way from the boat (3)the cost of keeping a boat in Poole and the family growing up so that it's no longer 5, 6 or 7 airfares!
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Duncan
Fuel cost is only one factor but as you say it is a factor.
The problem is that very few boats have to leave the UK to make the overall situation a net loss in terms of revenue - its all the spending directly and indirectly you do on your boating over here that would be lost.
There are already three people above who state this might tip the scales - add to that its another barrier to new people entering power boating and the result can be a serious loss.
Fuel cost is only one factor but as you say it is a factor.
The problem is that very few boats have to leave the UK to make the overall situation a net loss in terms of revenue - its all the spending directly and indirectly you do on your boating over here that would be lost.
There are already three people above who state this might tip the scales - add to that its another barrier to new people entering power boating and the result can be a serious loss.
epervier
Well-Known Member
what public support?
for the most part, I'm sure the public perceive MOBO owners as individuals with too much disposable income!
we are not likely to get any public support, unlike the fuel protests, when it affected about 80% of the population.
for the most part, I'm sure the public perceive MOBO owners as individuals with too much disposable income!
we are not likely to get any public support, unlike the fuel protests, when it affected about 80% of the population.
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to se what actual affect it does have on peoples decisions as to where they keep their boats. I was toying with the idea of getting something bigger but this now most definitely has me thinking of buying abroad and keeping the boat there and not here. My Uk boating can be done on our RIB whenthe weather is suitable, along with my diving activities.
It could actually end up saving us money and giving us somewhere completely diffferent to look forward to exploring. Of course it means that most of the money i currently spend here in the UK will also go abroad.
Good old Labour Govt and smiling Gordon, amybe they should have put themselves out just that little bit more, now they'll have to find jsut a bit more tax revenue from another source.
It could actually end up saving us money and giving us somewhere completely diffferent to look forward to exploring. Of course it means that most of the money i currently spend here in the UK will also go abroad.
Good old Labour Govt and smiling Gordon, amybe they should have put themselves out just that little bit more, now they'll have to find jsut a bit more tax revenue from another source.
gjgm
Well-Known Member
at some point in boat prices there will be a stabilisation. Just as generally no one wants a twin engined petrol (or at least, not before today) at some price (v.cheap) you can stomach the fuel in exchange for alot of boat for little money. I ve put off moving up bcz I think 5/7year old twins and older will be a nightmare to sell now. But, if its 30pct cheaper now... well...
Ok maybe 30pct is a bit much?
Ok maybe 30pct is a bit much?
rickp
Well-Known Member
Whats the price difference between here and the med?
Rick
Rick
AdeOlly
Well-Known Member
I think to a degree what will happen to boat prices is anyone's guess. Even if the fuels end up costing the same, as a very rough rule, a diesel will still cost a lot less to run as in marine usage a diesel burns little more than half a comparable petrol. (MBM demonstrated this admirably some while ago in their back to back trials of two Karnics). Petrol availability is also an issue for many, as is safety, or at least perceived safety anyway.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
That is what i am saying - there would be no public support!
duncan
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
It could actually end up saving us money and giving us somewhere completely diffferent to look forward to exploring. Of course it means that most of the money i currently spend here in the UK will also go abroad.
[/ QUOTE ]
yep - that's exactly how I see it.
I keep highlighting to people in work how individuals will live quietly accepting 'losses' into which they have drifted, evolved etc (overpayments, poor value etc) but it only takes a small trigger to get them to reconsider something and they end up reviewing everything!
Thus if you are making a profit on a customer it makes sense to fend off issues likely to make him reconsider anything really.
To a degree this is what Paul is highlighting - UK plc does pretty well out of certain groups in society - latterly 'middle england'. These individuals on the whole, and I include myself, accept taxes (mostly PAYE of course!), pay for private medical insurance, private dental, often a mix of private education for their offspring and they probably,on balance, pay for their own skips too rather than expecting someone else to clear up..........
back in the 70's things got screwed up enough for a whole lot of professionals to get so fed up they left in droves - it happened overnight - and policy makers work up one morning and asked why did that happen?"
It could actually end up saving us money and giving us somewhere completely diffferent to look forward to exploring. Of course it means that most of the money i currently spend here in the UK will also go abroad.
[/ QUOTE ]
yep - that's exactly how I see it.
I keep highlighting to people in work how individuals will live quietly accepting 'losses' into which they have drifted, evolved etc (overpayments, poor value etc) but it only takes a small trigger to get them to reconsider something and they end up reviewing everything!
Thus if you are making a profit on a customer it makes sense to fend off issues likely to make him reconsider anything really.
To a degree this is what Paul is highlighting - UK plc does pretty well out of certain groups in society - latterly 'middle england'. These individuals on the whole, and I include myself, accept taxes (mostly PAYE of course!), pay for private medical insurance, private dental, often a mix of private education for their offspring and they probably,on balance, pay for their own skips too rather than expecting someone else to clear up..........
back in the 70's things got screwed up enough for a whole lot of professionals to get so fed up they left in droves - it happened overnight - and policy makers work up one morning and asked why did that happen?"
Oen
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with a blokcade is how it would be painted to the public - we would lose public support in seconds.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you certain that the public would not support a blockade which is in protest at yet more taxes?
You might have a point if it were nothing but 50ft gin palaces, but I suspect the truth would be a mix of fishing boats, small cruisers, yachts, anything that floats and uses diesel...
The problem with a blokcade is how it would be painted to the public - we would lose public support in seconds.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you certain that the public would not support a blockade which is in protest at yet more taxes?
You might have a point if it were nothing but 50ft gin palaces, but I suspect the truth would be a mix of fishing boats, small cruisers, yachts, anything that floats and uses diesel...
Gludy
Well-Known Member
If you combine the effects of:-
1. People not moving up or changing boats
2. Fewer people entering boating
3. People choosing to buy and stay abroad
4. People not returning to the UK
5. reduced usage
The combined effect can be enough to tip the cales on what is an already poor market. Despite what the official story is the UK boat trade is currently struggling.
They thought in California that a 10% Levy on luxury cars over $50,000 would raise a lot of money - in fact it collapsed the market and less revenue was raised than before. Gordon Brown is adding bits of straw to the donkey and one day it will only take one strand to break the donkeys back.
1. People not moving up or changing boats
2. Fewer people entering boating
3. People choosing to buy and stay abroad
4. People not returning to the UK
5. reduced usage
The combined effect can be enough to tip the cales on what is an already poor market. Despite what the official story is the UK boat trade is currently struggling.
They thought in California that a 10% Levy on luxury cars over $50,000 would raise a lot of money - in fact it collapsed the market and less revenue was raised than before. Gordon Brown is adding bits of straw to the donkey and one day it will only take one strand to break the donkeys back.
duncan
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Gordon Brown is adding bits of straw to the donkey and one day it will only take one strand to break the donkeys back.
[/ QUOTE ] now I think that's camels - donkey's aren't that stupid and would eat the straw when Gordon wasn't looking!
Gordon Brown is adding bits of straw to the donkey and one day it will only take one strand to break the donkeys back.
[/ QUOTE ] now I think that's camels - donkey's aren't that stupid and would eat the straw when Gordon wasn't looking!
Gludy
Well-Known Member
But commercial boats that consume 98% plus of the fuel are exempt from all this.
Any boat owner is perceived as rich in our society. Usually by the folks who have never understood what work really is but are experts on what people should not be allowed to get away with.
I listened to a politican the other night talking about someone who was not taxed as high being subsidised by others!!! It now seems the government own all we have and by not taking it all from us they subsidise us!!!!!
Any boat owner is perceived as rich in our society. Usually by the folks who have never understood what work really is but are experts on what people should not be allowed to get away with.
I listened to a politican the other night talking about someone who was not taxed as high being subsidised by others!!! It now seems the government own all we have and by not taking it all from us they subsidise us!!!!!
Gludy
Well-Known Member
"now I think that's camels - donkey's aren't that stupid and would eat the straw when Gordon wasn't looking! "
AAAhhhhhh . but Gordon is that stupid as to try and put it on a donkey!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
AAAhhhhhh . but Gordon is that stupid as to try and put it on a donkey!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
