Red diesel fight lost!

Simon

Would it really take that long to change the law? Such legislation is usually written in such a way that item such as % or values can be changed by standing order rather than full debate in the House.

For instance Gordon Brown announced an increase in fuel duty in his pre-budget statement which was effected the same night.

This is bad news for UK boaters, despite your teams best efforts, but I don't honestly see it as doom and gloom for the marine industry. People will adapt to using their boats in a different way.

It definitely means that I won't ever bring my boat back to the UK. When we have had enough of the Med, I will just sell up and do something else instead. Makes my extra £10 per flight "green tax" look quite reasonable.

Martyn
 
Please will someone clarify this for me /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Marina pump price Diesel now
37p + 8p duty = 45p

EU say must be at least

37p + 20p duty = 57p

But our leaders who didnt want an increase will most likely charge

37p + 48p duty = 85p
 
Martyn

I think the point is that this isn't a tweak of existing tax rates. Red diesel will still be in existence at the same tax rate, but it will require a legislative change to say that it will be illegal for pleasure boaters to use it. This is pure speculation though.

As for the minimum levels, I'm confused to be honest. Rick, in that link you sent, if you scroll down it lists a figure of €302 per 1000/litres. That's the same figure as is given here
 
MedDreamer
"It definitely means that I won't ever bring my boat back to the UK"

And it will tip the ablance for others who are in the UK to go abroad - just one boat not there in the UK would take a lot of extra fuel sold to cover the total tax hole caused by the loss of one boat.

Tax yeiled will probably drop because of this, not increase.
 
Ah - good find. I couldn't find the rate on any of the EU websites. €302/1000litres look to be right - so 20p/litre ish.

Rick
 
Given that the European Commission has stated that it is willing to see measures introduced to mitigate the impact (provided they do not offend the state aid rules) and given that the UK government made the application to extend the derogation then I think there is a good case for applying the minimum rate of duty.
 
Exactly, why doesn't someone lobby the UK government to basically keep "Red Diesel for Boats", charge the minimum EU rate, which would mean about an extra 12.5p/litre. Commercial users could claim back the difference.

If we were French, we would have blockaded Southampton by now. Disrupting container traffic for a few days would get someone's attention. A line of boats from the end of the QEII terminal, past Hythe Knock, and to the outer marker at Hythe Marina, can't be more than 1/2 mile.

dv.
 
despite positive messages from various directions I believe the government had no intention of making a serious go of this issue. They love tax and any way to get tax dollars, they love trafffic jams with all those taxed gallons being consumed by stationery vehicles. Any talk of tax EU harmonisation is patent rubbish, and what does the tax money do for the environment .. nothing.
After re-engining from petrol I have 2 modern diesel engines that make less pollution in my cruising year than 2JAGS does in a month.
The extra tax money will just go towards government gold plated pensions and looney quango's.
Words fail me.
 
This is just a case of the Government passing on the dirty work to someone else.

"Of course we wanted to keep it but Brussels wouldn't listen. We did our best. However now this decision has been made (which we really didn't want) then we can't really afford to change the tax system and anyway it would be just too complicated. So we will have to just charge the same as road duty, sorry but not our fault, honest"
 
[ QUOTE ]
I also think that perceptions matter to the market and I think boat prices will fall in the UK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must say that I agree with this, in as much that those who can afford a new purchase will still buy because of relative costs, if you can afford the purchase price of a large MOBO then you can afford to fuel it.

On the other hand people with older diesel hungry MOBOs who at this time can "just" afford to fill up at 40p then any increase, whether it be 20p or 45p will make the resale value of their craft plummet. IE a 500 ltr fill up @ 40 p£200, @60p=£300 @85p=£425. It can only have one effect, crush the lower end of the boat purchasing chain.

Sure people will get used to the price hike eventually but it will be bad news for those wanting to sell their boats over the coming months/year, they've been taking a long time to sell this year anyway, but perhaps it was due to this situation we all find ourselves in as of to-day.

Also, it will almost certainly force the marine engine makers go down the road of the auto industry, to make more efficient power units to try to keep their industry alive!

Just my opinion BTW.
 
On a slightly tenuous link........

we arrange amongst other things life insurance, earlier this year we had a policy which could be sold under pension legislation. As a higher rate tax payer you got back 40% tax relief on your contributions. As from this morning this is no longer available as our goverment has decided the policy was abusing the tax regime.

Complete tossers the lot of them. Utter [--word removed--].
 
Re: On a slightly tenuous link........

It seems to me that the strategy now is 'tax if you can' rather than 'tax if you have to'.... conditions ripe for social unrest in the long term IMHO.....

On a seperate note, what impact do you all think this will have on the market for secondhand Raggies?
 
Re: On a slightly tenuous link........

Yes - I noticed that there's some more rumblings about tightening up on contractors too. Will affect a fair few folks I know and just increase the amount of off-shoring going on. Not sure they're really thinking too hard about these things.

Rick
 
Re: On a slightly tenuous link........

[ QUOTE ]
On a seperate note, what impact do you all think this will have on the market for secondhand Raggies?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very little to none. they ain't throwing 500 ltrs in to do 250 nm. in theory just chugging in and out of harbour.@ about 1gph
 
Re: On a slightly tenuous link........

Not necessarily unrest, just that Labour will lose the next election. Cameron will link any new green taxes to reductions in other taxation to give us the feeling of a neutral change. Brown will just tax for the sake of it like the good socialist he is
 
Re: On a slightly tenuous link........

I think sail will be affected more than they think especially those in the expensive South coast marinas.

There are hundreds of boats berthed North, East and west that head for the south coast for the peak 3 summer months.

Now diesel has increased it will not make economic sense to continue the Pilgrimage.
It will be cheaper to stay on the South Coast year round.
The increased demand on these marinas will push berthing fees up considerably.

Prices for Yachts will go down not up !
 
Re: On a slightly tenuous link........

[ QUOTE ]
Complete tossers the lot of them. Utter [--word removed--].

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement I whole heartedly agree with, however our problem is we live in a democracy and the majority have the last word, and MOBOers are in a very small minority sector, similar to fox hunts, so it stands to reason we've been f***** and they didn't even give us a kiss!

nothin' new there then? from Blair and his cronies.
 
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