Realistically how close will your boat sail to the wind

[mocruising]

I realise to some extend it depends on your sails and the wind speed and of course the design of the boat but give a figure and mention the design of boat.

 

[flaming]

Best VMG is 37 degrees to the true wind in the 10 - 15 knot (true) wind range. Can get a little higher briefly, but then need to fall off to build speed again.
This is an Elan 37, which is an especially good upwind boat.

 

[Pye_End]

This was discussed not too long ago, but comparrisons for me got a bit confusing as those with wind instruments could give a figure based on apparent wind, and it wasn't always obvious. Those of us without tend to see what we tack through.

 

[vyv_cox]

We tack through 90 degrees on the compass in moderate winds. Reference to the plotter shows we rarely achieve that in COG, dependent on waves, possibly current (in the Med, so no tide). Sometimes it looks more like 110 degrees, very occasionally less than 90. Usually make 30 degrees to apparent wind, go to 32 - 35 in chop.

Sadler 34, shallow fin, excellent sails (Hood Vectron) We know that we easily outpoint a deep fin Sadler 34 with lesser sails, and therefore conclude that the sails make a massive difference.

 

[flaming]

We tack through 90 degrees on the compass in moderate winds. Reference to the plotter shows we rarely achieve that in COG, dependent on waves, possibly current (in the Med, so no tide). Sometimes it looks more like 110 degrees, very occasionally less than 90. Usually make 30 degrees to apparent wind, go to 32 - 35 in chop.

Sadler 34, shallow fin, excellent sails (Hood Vectron) We know that we easily outpoint a deep fin Sadler 34 with lesser sails, and therefore conclude that the sails make a massive difference.

Yep, took the race sails off and put the (very cheap) delivery dacron on for the trip down to Dartmouth this year. Difference was probably 10 degrees, and the excellent feel of the helm was gone.

 

[Sans Bateau]

As indicated by the ST50 wind display, we were on Monday sailing in a slight sea, F4 achieving 30 true, about 28 apparent. I guess with some leeway our actual COG was not as good. When the wind dropped off, we had to bear away to get some more power, likewise in a more boisterous sea and over F5 we will have to bear away as well.

Etap 35i, 1.6 metre (draft) wing keel with Dimension MT Sq sails, on their second season.

 

[Searush]

About 4'6"?

But it can be worse if the tide's against me.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I realise to some extend it depends on your sails and the wind speed and of course the design of the boat but give a figure and mention the design of boat.

I don't care. I'm much more concerned with what speed to windward she can make, and that's never achieved by pinching her.

Also I have a long keeled boat, so despite Chuck Paine's genius, I'd rather not know!

 

[Even Chance]

The tacking arms on my windex are set to 30 deg from the centerline, and I hold a course to them all the time. This is on an E-Boat, which is a fantastic upwind boat.
I have sailed slightly closer without the luffs lifting, but as you know, pinching loses speed big time.

 

[Simes]

Hmm Interesting . . .

Around 55 degrees to the apparent less (but not much) if it is blowing hard, more if F2 or less.

OK sails, St'Sl Gaff Schooner, all keel.

Simes

 

[jonjo]

This thread is going to descend into a "mine is smaller than yours" contest.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

I believe the theoretical limit for the angle of attack for soft aerofoils (ie sails) is 22.5degrees. Once you factor in heeling, chop and motion the angle rapidly becomes 30 degrees plus.
Does anybody have figures for superyachts or Americas Cup yachts???

 

[colvic987]

around 150 degrees, any more and i spills me tea.

seriously i keep it on the windex tails, i am not sure what there set to, but if i keep it to them, then we can keep to that all day. windex mentions 55' setup for extremely windward boats and up to 65' for aux yachts, so i would say mine is around 65' (degrees set between telltails).

 

[Otter]

New cruising laminate sails on our Heavenly Twins made a massive difference, I'd agree with that 10 degree figure, plus she settles into a groove so much more readily. Although she points so much higher, but as has been said, it's Course Made Good and most importantly VMG that I'm interested in. For our cruising a 5 degree shift away from the wind results in a real improvement in VMG - the old adage of "sail further but sail faster" makes a lot of sense. I guess on something like the Elan 37 though, you are pointing a lot higher to start with!

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Best VMG is 37 degrees to the true wind in the 10 - 15 knot (true) wind range. Can get a little higher briefly, but then need to fall off to build speed again.
This is an Elan 37, which is an especially good upwind boat.

Would be interested to know your thoughts on different sheeting positions ( I notice that some racer's have up to three) .

What criteria do you use for using them ?

I have messed about with rather spotty results using blocks on my own boat. I do wonder if yacht designers skimp on multiple tracks on cruising yachts . Probably cost based.

Regards,

 

[Lakesailor]

If someone can come up with a method of finding where the wind is going to be I may be able to tell. I was out today and everytime I went about the wind seemed to go about with me.
Just sometimes on a tack you get a clue from the broken water and can veer maybe 40° so that when the gust gets to you, you can make use of it.
Still. It makes it interesting.

 

[Searush]

If someone can come up with a method of finding where the wind is going to be I may be able to tell. I was out today and everytime I went about the wind seemed to go about with me.
Just sometimes on a tack you get a clue from the broken water and can veer maybe 40° so that when the gust gets to you, you can make use of it.
Still. It makes it interesting.

Oh, the joys of sailing inland lakes (& Scottish Lochs for that matter)


Back to OP, doesn't pointing ability cease to be much of an issue outside the Solent, Channel & other sheltered waters?

Once you get proper waves & overfalls, I would guess the ability to punch thro the seas becomes more important. But I sail (motor?) a floating caravan (from personal & family preference) so what would I know?

Enjoy your own choice & stop fretting if it is "better or worse" than another's choice on a single aspect of our pastime (or your sport).

 

[HinewaisMan]

It seemed to be such a good idea a few years back to have a bit more belly cut into our new sails with all that downwind trades sailing we were going to do.

Having been beating up the Channel into eaterlies for the last week or so (it seems an eternity), not so sure.

We're lucky to get 55d off apparant so the donks been getting a bit of a workout. But then Hinewai's like a pregnant guppy under the waterline, ketch rigged, wide beamed with heady track way way out, 18 tons and long keeled.

Hmm, maybe 55 isn't so bad afterall.

 

[Robin]

Back to OP, doesn't pointing ability cease to be much of an issue outside the Solent, Channel & other sheltered waters?

Once you get proper waves & overfalls, I would guess the ability to punch thro the seas becomes more important. But I sail (motor?) a floating caravan (from personal & family preference) so what would I know?

I disagree. If you have a boat that performs well upwind and points close, when you encounter offshore conditions you can free off for more power to punch through the seas yet still be sailing as close to the wind as many others can only achieve in calm waters. We sailed a Westerly 33 Ketch for 14 years and had it set up to perform it's best, with good sails including fully battened main and mizzen, gas kicker, improved mizzen sheeting etc and it's optimum was 35 degs to the apparent wind in normal seastate. By contrast on our last Sun Legende 41, also good sails and gear, optimum was at 28 degs apparent (would do 22 degs but down from 7kts to 6kts, same or slightly worse VMG) and in a lumpy sea we would free off to 30/32 degs. At 35 degs apparent, the best the W33 could do, on the SL41 we would have the sheets and main eased off quite a bit and be at 7.5/8.0kts close reaching. The W33 was an excellent boat, even to windward, but really was completely outclassed upwind by the SL41 even allowing for the extra waterline length.

BTW the assumption of calmer waters in the Solent & Channel is wrong. The Solent has strong tides and plenty of vicious overfalls with wind over tide conditions producing a nasty short bone jarring sea going upwind, albeit with a low wave height. The Channel especially in the central part has strong tides and some of the roughest waters anywhere in places like Portland Bill and Alderney Race, not to mention Start Point and the Lizard. The seas may well be higher elsewhere but the wavelength is longer and much easier to deal with.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Yep, took the race sails off and put the (very cheap) delivery dacron on for the trip down to Dartmouth this year. Difference was probably 10 degrees, and the excellent feel of the helm was gone.

Interesting comment that Flaming, but the 10 degrees does surprise me. I would have expected some improvement but not that much