Re What Boat?

[Guest]

What a helpful lot you are! Many thanks for all your suggestions; you've given me some useful ideas regarding what to look for.

From a quick look at a couple of brokerage websites I see the Hurley 22 comes in various keels. Do I take it that the long bottomed with outboard well version is the best one? Prices start at about £1500; presumably I shouldn't pick one at that price or should I? Is there anywhere (apart from you guys) where I could get an idea of second hand boat prices and what condition to expect? A boat version of Glass's Guide for the motor trade? (I should warn you, I'm full of idiotic questions). The brokerage sites imply (or state) that the boats are ready to sail off over the horizon. I'm a bit worried that you did you might not come back!

In order to keep the Finance Committe (ie wife) happy, I want to spend as little as possible. Equally, I want something safe to sail; not a major renovation job so is it generally more economical to buy a more expensive boat rather than buy a cheaper one and have to spend money and time bringing it up to scratch? I know there will be ongoing costs and maintenance with whatever I buy; I just don't want to fork out for the wrong thing. On one of the websites, I forget which, 3 Hurley 22's were advertised and the oldest one was the most expensive and it didn't seem to have as much kit as the others. All very confusing for a frogbottler.

Having only sailed dingheys (mostly Enterprise, GP14 and Laser) up to now, I want to spend time getting some experience handling one of these big boats before setting off on my own; so here's my final questions, for now anyway, how much training is needed (and how do I get it) so as not to be an idiot and a danger to self and others? Is the RYA Competant Crew the course I should do, or do you advise a higher course before jumping in? And finally, I know there are lots of sailing schools around but can anyone personally recommend one to save me sticking a pin in? Thanks.

 

[dickh]

We spent 6 months looking for a replacement boat - age is not necessarily a good criteria. There is a lot rubbish out there with a big price tag. don't go for the first you see, particularly on a popular boat like a Hurley 22. A well looked after boat, with regular equipment upgrades could well be a better buy than a later bog standard version which has had nothing spent on it. Spend a weekend looking at several and comparing. Make a check list and see what equipment is with each boat, including condition of sails, evidence of engine servicing, equipment and safety features, if flares on board check expiry date - this could tell a lot about the owner, if welln out of date, they could have been boght when the boat was new but never been replaced - it is common however to have in date and out of date flares as most boaters are reluctant to dispose of old flares. They are kept as backup as usually they will work. If possible try and get a sail in one and quiz the owner about any foibles etc. Also try and speak to any existing owners, most owners are more than happy to talk about their boats - also try the website for Hurleys - they must have one I would think.
A competant crew or dayskipper course is a good idea, depending on your experience and knowledge, however if you get friendly with a local owner or join a local yacht club, you probably learn a lot if you go as crew initially, or cajole someone to go with you for the first few times, beer and a good meal in the local pub seems to work .
Anyway, Good Luck in your hunting!

 

[extravert]

When I bought my first small boat, I bought a cheap one requiring investment and work, and regretted it. From my experience I would advise to spend more on the initial purchase and hopefully less on later repairs and improvements. If you buy a low cost boat and then spend money on improvements you never get all your money back when you sell it. Therefore by buying a boat that is in good condition and has had these improvements done, someone else is making this loss, not you.

As far as experience goes, I came into yacht sailing with a lot of dinghy experience but not much else. My first boat was 7 metres, and really was not a lot different to sail than a large dinghy, just less tippy, so I don't think you will have any difficulty there. What is all new of course is charts, tides, ships, lights and no rescue boat hanging around waiting to scoop you up. I think that competent crew would teach you more about the things you know (how to sail a sailing boat) but less about what you don't (how to skipper a craft at sea). I would suggest one of the higher qualifications, like day or coastal skipper, and get yourself on an evening course, which will be much more valuable. They often start in the autumn.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Some very good advice there! The fact that you are aware of your limitations (re experience) would indicate that you are on the right track and as long as you go ahead step by step you should not have many problems. It's rather like driving: no sensible person would drive onto a freeway straight after buying his first car.
One last general comment: BEWARE of 'bargains'. Life experience shows that there are more idiots who buy than there are idiots who sell. In boats, as in many other things, there are three characteristics:-
Fast, Safe, Cheap
You will never find all three for the same boat.
Good luck in your hunting and welcome to the wonderful world of mini cruising.
Fair Winds!

Wally

 

[vyv_cox]

Look at http://www.geocities.com/hurleyowners/ for some info.

You are entering cruising at about the same knowledge level as I was, years ago. Sailing and racing dinghies and cats for years, some knowledge of navigation learned for sea canoeing but that's about all. As time has progressed I do less and less of the helming, which my wife prefers, and my attention is more and more upon the other things, like charts and navigation, VHF, weather, close quarters motoring and all the other things that make cruising so varied and interesting. So my advice is to do theory courses to fill in your knowledge gaps but to do the real learning on the boat, practising what you have been taught.

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Crickey some big stuff there. Basically you have 2 options
Buy a cheap boat and spend your weekends fixing stuff or buy a decent boat and start sailing. It depends on what you want. We always have one cheap wreck for my dad to ‘work on’. It keeps him happy for hours to sit on it and tinker in the hope that one day it can be launched. But he can get to the boat in one hour. I have a four hour drive and so would never buy anything that needed work as do not have time and more importantly am not very good at fixing stuff.

If you are interested in a particular type a great place to start is the owner’s club, they will have a wealth of experience in knowing what to look for etc. finally if you decide to invest more than anticipated and get a bigger boat ( it happens an awful lot) get a survey done. if you are spending a lot, it can save a lot of heartache later.

As for quals. Do the theory and the practical to at least to day skipper. There are loads of schools. Pick one that is in your intended cruising area. It is no good cruising in a very tidal area but learning out of say Largs in Scotland where tides are not so much of an issue. Get your crew to do comp crew at the very least although a knowledge of Nav is also useful in case you are incapacitated.

Good luck and have fun

PS you can do comp crew at schools overseas, this is not recommended if you want a happy ‘crew’ My wet weekends in North Wales are curtailed after taking the ‘crew’ to the med. Just a hint.


If it Cooks Flys or Floats, Rent it.

 

[Guest]

If you're interested in the Hurley 22 have a look at http://www.geocities.com/hurleyowners/

I know someone who is selling a Hurley 22 in North Wales if you're anywhere near geographically.

Regards,

Peter
http://www.mistressofmourne.com

 

[tome]

Plenty of good advice on buying a boat.

As for courses, competent crew may be a little tame and would advise you go for day skipper as a novice with dinghy experience. My wife did both the theory at nightschool (crap teacher) and the practical at Sunsail Port Solent where she had a marvellous instructor and enjoyed it tremendously despite her initial anxiety.

I also did a practical course with Sunsail and despite some criticism would recommend them. I have no connection with them

Good luck and fair breezes

 

[jonjo]

An experienced dinghy sailor could venture out into the Solent with little training providing:

(1) You get into harbour as soon as visibility starts to drop.
(2) You don't do anything erratic under the bows of a large merchant ship or fast hydrofoil.

You will probably want to change boat after a few years so a Hurley 22 is an excellent first choice because the design is well known and respected hence it should sell.

Do not assume that the asking price is in anyway indicative of the value of the boat. A large number of yacht owners harbour serious delusions about the value of their boat and it can take a year before market reality triggers a price rethink.

There is usually a lot of dross sitting on the market at any instance in time because by definition good well priced boats sell but the problem stuff sits on the market for months of not a year or more. Try to see 4+ boats in a short period.

Over 20 years of age the year of manufacture is far less important than quality of maintenance and the degree of rolling re-investment in recent years.

Expenses to look out for in this type of boat are:

Engine, standing rigging, sails, manky soft furnishing, tired old spray hood, wobbly rudder bearings, leaking/corroded window frames, badly crazed Perspex windows or hatches, rusty cooker, 30 year old winches made from a strange bakelite type material, gas bottle storage that does not meet modern insurance requirements.

Beware of buying a "project boat" because the "finance committee" will not be impressed with bargain that never goes to sea.

The accommodation of a Hurley 22 might be shock, so prepare the wife's expectation in this department (think medium ridge tent without standing height).