Re-Running a lost internal halyard in a mast .... Spinnaker

Refueler

Refueler

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Re-running a halyard that pulled through and was lost. Its the spinnaker halyard. All halyards except topping lift are internal ...

I have all other halyards with trace lines in ... while they are out for washing. Now how to get the extra halyard in ...

Mast is down and I have access to any part.

I'm thinking to hook the genny line and attach a second trace line to it so on pulling - it sets lines via the two sheeves at mast head ... at base - I separate the trace lines and set at respective sheeve.

My question is - will the two lines twist as they get pulled through so the halyards basically end up spiralled round each other inside ?

No good trying the stiff wire trick - this is not a dinghy mast !! its 28ft long.

Originally I was thinking to have mast propped up at an angle to have a weighted line slide down inside ...

Please note that mast is over 40yrs old and the retaining plates for the sheeve pins would be near impossible to unscrew to remove the sheeves.

Ideas please ......
 
3 x 6 meter lengths of 6 or 8 mm steel rod welded together to make up 18 meters would go down the sheaves and of you taped a tracer line to the end would feed through.

I did that with my 15 meter mast using 20 mm plastic conduit. I could remove the mast head fitting so you need something thinner
 
Run the genoa halyard up and down a few times to get any twist out - so don't coil it as you do so, just walk straight away. Then shouldn't twist as you pull the other through.

A messenger will slide down(with a few nuts tied on) with the mast at about 30 degrees if you keep shaking it. (Similar problem and that's as high as I could get it).

Take the heel fitting out and you can get any old pole up there., but a decent tape measure will take light messenger along.

My mast is also 40yo, and the sheave covers were a pig to get off, but it didn't actually take that long, and it's nice to be able to pop them out for inspection/cock ups.
 
I actually bought special weights (you get them in Fishing Shops) ..... its a narrow plastic tube with a lead weight at the end ... total about 4 - 5" long. The plastic tube end is designed for line to be attached. I would need help to lift mast up to rest end on my workshop balcony joists, with other on the ground ... angle ? maybe 30+ deg.

Rod ..... now that's got me thinking ..... I have thin CF rods left over from a tent ..... The only thing to sort is how to connect them ... each set is 2 or 3 with elastic inside that connect together to create the tents hoop. How to connect them all together .... and that they can be pulled without coming apart ..... (I will be pushing of course - but who knows !)

Will be looking at those in the morning and also looking at my weights again ...

I'm not so sure about pulling two thin trace lines through together.

The sheeve pin plates ... I tried removing them today - but 2 out of 3 - the screws wouldn't budge and even though I had correct size screwdriver - the heads are damaged. I may grind of the rest of the heads ... prise the plate / pins out and see if I can remove the threaded bits to replace.
 
Yes the halyards will twist around one another given the chance.
Sometimes you just have to keep trying until it comes out right.
At least you're not doing it between races!
What I try to do is have all the other halyards so tight they don't touch the lowest side of the mast, with the mast at a suitable angle from the vertical, slide the weighted trace line down the low side.
Something like 1mm steel wire (fence wire, garden wire?) weighted with a whole load of maybe M4 nuts threaded on?
It's much easier if you can get the mast close to vertical. This is why sailing club clubhouses have balconies.
But if one end is as high as you can reach with a stepladder you have a chance.

It's actually easier to rig the mast with all light 'mouse' lines, because they are light enough to be kept off the low side with achievable tension.
While lthe mast is down, get the sheaves out and refurbish as needed.
 
My mate used a clever technique to pull a thin mouse line through his unstepped and horizontal mast. He simply attached line to a mild steel pin and used a strong magnet on outside of mast to pull it along. I was very impressed with his ingenuity!
 
Have used the "weight on a light bit of string" approach successfully more times than I care to remember.

Unless your mast is absolutely ramrod straight, which is unusual these days, the halyards will be lying against the aft face of the tube following the prebend. So if the weight gets to the bottom you can be reasonably sure that it has not twisted around the existing halyards.
 
We got ours thru using some strong magnets. The neodymium ones come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Also great for mousing wires behind panels.
 
I tried all variants on "weighted string down the mast", none of which worked. Eventually, with teh mast down, I used a set of fibreglass electricians' poles - they are like chimney sweeping poles but much narrower. I attached a "geomag" magnet to the ingoing end of the rods, and another one (opposite polarity!) to the end of the mousing line. I pushed the pole up the mast interior till it was up against the sheave, and then lowered the mousing line magnet in. There was a satisfying snick as they came together, and then I was able to retract the rods and mousing line back out of the base of the mast. Hint - make sure the rod sections are screwed together very firmly (locitite?) as you really, really, don't want them coming apart inside your mast.
 
Greemble said:
The magnet idea is one I'm going to keep in mind.

Last time I ran a line through I used a length of 1x19 steel rigging wire.
Not the shroud from my boat, of course, an off-cut from a local rigger.
Click to expand...
I used a shackle pin to reeve a reefing line through my boom; simply used it to drop a light line through. But since then I've made sure all my halliards have a knot on the end!
 
I've used two methods successful when faced with a similar problem:
I lost the internal topping lift, but the main halyard was in still in place, I attached 2 messenger lines to the main halyard and pulled them through, separating them at the top and bottom with a bit of bent coat hanger wire, so they came out of the correct sheave or slot, a bit "do or die"but it worked and should be OK if you use strong messenger line and stitch it into the halyards.
I've also used a length of old 7 x 19 standing rigging with a messenger line taped to the end, which was stiff enough to push up a horizontal mast, usually plenty of that kind of stuff at the local riggers. That was much harder to retrieve at the top end, the base of the mast was open, so easy to get in. At the head of the mast it was hard to manipulate the rigging wire into a position where I could hook the messenger wire and pull it through, especially single handed, I had to twist the rigging wire at the base, walk to the other end to see if that made a difference, then walk back and try again. It took a while but it was successful in the end.
 
Today ordered 100m reel of 10mm Braid on Braid low-stretch polyester to replace sheets and halyards. The lines will be subjected to stretch similar to Pre-Stretched.

Originals were over sized by previous owner ... yes over 20 years ago ... and STILL in good condition ... so will make good mooring ropes.

Originals :

To be replaced later

Furling gear lock line : 7mm x 16m
Topping Lift : 8mm x 21m
Furling line : 7mm x 17m

To be replaced >

Genny sheets : 10mm x 14m x 2
Halyard Main : 12mm x 25m
Halyard Genny : 12mm x 24m
Spinnaker Halyard : 12mm x 24m

Yes I know that is 101m ..... but to be honest all original lines are too long anyway ...

Cost ? £107 incl shipping ...... yep - even I was amazed !! Lets see what arrives !!

White/Black Double Braid Polyester Rope 8mm 10mm 12mm 14mm 16mm By 100M Reel | eBay
 
Ian_Edwards said:
I've used two methods successful when faced with a similar problem:
I lost the internal topping lift, but the main halyard was in still in place, I attached 2 messenger lines to the main halyard and pulled them through, separating them at the top and bottom with a bit of bent coat hanger wire, so they came out of the correct sheave or slot, a bit "do or die"but it worked and should be OK if you use strong messenger line and stitch it into the halyards.
I've also used a length of old 7 x 19 standing rigging with a messenger line taped to the end, which was stiff enough to push up a horizontal mast, usually plenty of that kind of stuff at the local riggers. That was much harder to retrieve at the top end, the base of the mast was open, so easy to get in. At the head of the mast it was hard to manipulate the rigging wire into a position where I could hook the messenger wire and pull it through, especially single handed, I had to twist the rigging wire at the base, walk to the other end to see if that made a difference, then walk back and try again. It took a while but it was successful in the end.
Click to expand...

The two lines was my idea but I was worried about then twisting inside the mast .... I looked at shop this morning for some steel cable of suitable size - but either too small or too big !! So in the end bought two 5mm poly ropes at 20m each .... thinking about it - maybe clothes line is better ... might nip out and get some ...

But yes - intention is to use the Genny halyard which is in place to pull the spinny one through as well ...
 
Refueler said:
Genny sheets : 10mm x 14m x 2
Halyard Main : 12mm x 25m
Halyard Genny : 12mm x 24m
Spinnaker Halyard : 12mm x 24m
Click to expand...

I would strongly advise that your kite halyard grows by about 10m. It needs to be long enough so that with the foot of the sail on the deck the sail could lie out horizontally on the water with the halyard slack. Otherwise a "oh bother" moment can turn very ugly indeed, or you end up knifing the halyard....
I have learnt this lesson the very hard way....
 
'Don't try this at home', but had a friend who had a similar problem, his answer? A small hand held crossbow (type you see in fishing/sports shops) tied a mousing line to the bolt and shot it down the mast. It worked but not to be recomended.
 
Praxinoscope said:
'Don't try this at home', but had a friend who had a similar problem, his answer? A small hand held crossbow (type you see in fishing/sports shops) tied a mousing line to the bolt and shot it down the mast. It worked but not to be recomended.
Click to expand...

Love it !!! But after over 40 years - doubt the mast cap and base would be easy to remove to open up mast !!

I will be seeing if they can be removed - shame to waste opportunity to service all ...
 
Compressed air and a thin lightweight thread as a leader for a mouse line. Blow it in off a free running spool. You need a powerful air supply and an air blower gun. This is how some large textile machines are fed with starter thread ends. Caveat - not tried on a boat, but it works amazingly well on machines.
 
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