Re-galvanising chain at BE Wedge - prices, update and tips

skyflyer

skyflyer

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Pricing accurate as of jan 2014

Just got my chain back from BE Wedge in Walsall, and thought I'd update anyone interested with the actual pricing which ended up a bit more than we expected.

The basic rate was £1.03263 per kilo, plus a stripping charge (that we weren't warned about) of 75% of that, i.e. £0.77448 per kilo plus an environmental charge of 6% then 20% VAT on top of the lot.

This makes it £2.42 per kilo, which at approx 1.5kg per meter of 8mm chain means about £3.35 a metre.

I realise that you can buy chinese chain for much the same cost but the receive wisdom seems to be that the quality and thickness of the coating from Wedge is far superior to any 'off the shelf chain' so as long as you started with a good chain, it is a better bet. Of course you do have to factor in the transport costs (I clubbed together with three other forumites)

Tips:
Directions. The formal address is Stafford Street,WV13 1RZ but the works entrance is in Gower Street and if you pop that in your satnav you won't get fouled up in the pedestrian and one way system that surrounds the works.

Drive straight in, park, go to portakabin and they will book it in. No need to make an appointment. If you bring it loose they pay-it-out into a box on a pallet, no problem.

Don't expect them to phone you when its ready! (They might eventually) Phone them after a couple of weeks and ask. Credit cards accepted on site.

You will need gloves to handle the finished chain as there are a few sharp 'pimples' and separate lengths are wired together with spiky bits of wire - my arms looked like I had attempted suicide with a razor after I had finished loading back into the car!

The 'stripping charge' was apparently because the overall condition of the chain was not good enough but they didn't mention anything at the time nor can I ascertain what IS good enough. It would appear that any remnants of paint used as markers etc will present a problem so either remove it or pay extra. (Because they hadn't mentioned it or asked us about it we did manage to negotiate a small discount to the stripping charge.)

Consider taking your anchor - when you see the finished chain and other people's finished anchors you'll wish you had had that done at the same time!

Hope this helps

:)
 
Two questions,

You mention 'there are a few sharp pimples' - which I assume are gal. So having got the chain home, or to the boat, did you need to remedy the pimples and does the pimply chain run cleanly though your windlass?

And in conclusion

Would you do it again/

Jonathan
 
I can't speak for another galvanizing company, but a couple of explanations further that might help too.

"Stripping" refers to getting the remaining zinc off. You wouldn't pay this for bare steel, but in the anchor chain case it would be rare to not have some remaining zinc. The reason for the charge is that to get this off consumes a lot of hydrochloric acid, which of course costs money. +75% on top of the galvanizing price is about average for this component of the price.
Its necessary to get this old zinc off to expose fresh, chemically clean steel. Galvanizing is an alloying reaction, not just a coating. Unless the molten zinc can "see" the fresh clean steel, nothing alloys there. If what it "sees" is old zinc, with some oxide over it, that bit just gets hot, not galvanized.

Most galvanizing companies will freely give a written quote, and it would detail any extras, and warn of such matters as paint being a problem.

Most galvanizers "could" galvanize chain if they wanted to, but its fiddly, and a trivial order compared against the tens of tonnes a day that most plant galavnize. So many of them just avoid it by saying they are not capable. But the plant above is perhaps the best equipped in the UK for this specific job.

Most pricing is by the weight of the item (after its galvanized). Most plants have a minimum order quantity, hence the idea that taking other stuff with your chain is a good idea, getting economies of scale.
But a warning about anchors. (no, lets not divert to anchor types!). Some modern anchors are made of special high strength steel. And some of those steels are susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement. So, discuss this with the galvanizer. They should want to know the grade of the steel to know if its a problem or not.
It is possible to galvanize high strength steels, but different process slightly from mild steel.
CQR, danforth, fishermans etc are mostly mild steel, or perhaps cast mild steel. Rocna, Knox and similar are mostly high strength steels.
High strength steel galvanized with no precautions could be seriously compromised.
 
Geoff,

Hydrogen Embrittlement is quoted as a problem of some high tensile steels as a result of acid washed and then galvanising and appears a well known feature of failure in HT construction bolts. At the back of my mind is the idea that failures as a result of HE are derived from inadequate precautions, poor quality control and/or simple ignorance but are not now a feature of 'the Western manufacturers'.

Is there any evidence, recorded instances, that with the proper precautions most (all?) European or American (call them 'western' so as not to exclude Oz etc) processors show that it is quite possible to safely galvanise HT steels, upto at least 800 MPa without introducing HT. American (ACCO) and Europeans (Maggi) appear to safely galvanise G7 chain for marine, anchor, use and I believe Peerless and Campbell have both safely galvanised G8 chain and there do not appear to be any reports of HE. However none of the manufacturers of galvanised G7 chain countenance regalvanising.

There are reports that the heat of galvanising might degrade the strength imparted by the tempering process of Q&T - but that is a completely different issue (and has nothing to do with HE).

Jonathan
 
I have had two chains regalvanised by Wedge. The first one, shown here http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Regalvanising.aspx did not incur a stripping charge.

The second one was in worse condition visually with a lot of oxide but without paint. This one did incur a stripping charge.

Costs are shown in the link above but at the time were a good deal less than the OP was charged. For the first the regalvanising cost was about a quarter of new chain, for the second about a third. It would seem that has risen again since my second job.
 
In fairness to Wedge, when I asked for the price in November they said £1.55 per kilo ex VAT which is somewhere between the charge without stripping (£1.03 ex VAT) and with (£2.18 ex VAT), so I am guessing that they had included stripping in the original estimate and that costs overall have risen over a couple of months. However at no time was there any discussion about the need for the chain to be in such-and-such a condition, which is basically why I have posted this info here so other folks can be aware that it may cost a bit more.

There's an old saying that you can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter! I think the moral of the story here is don't re-galvanise unless you have good quality chain.

Having said that MM5AHO implies that a chain with NO corrosion requires more work than an old rusty one as the old zinc has to be removed?
 
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"This makes it £2.42 per kilo, which at approx 1.5kg per meter of 8mm chain means about £3.35 a metre."


In 2009 Arkinstall did 40mtrs of 8mm chain for me for £51.75. 1.29p per metre.

As I understand it all old stuff has to be pickled to remove any existing coating and that is part of the process.

Any particularly grubby stuff needs to be cleaned prior. I seem to recall doing this in a cement mixer, with added gravel, in the old days. This avoided the galvanizer moaning about dirty chain and extra charges - if they even suspect a trace of paint they will refuse it.

Arkinstall can be contacted on 0121 643 6455. Brummie based. It would be interesting to see how their prices have changed.

Their rate per ton was 45 quid. An excellent job well worth doing, but at the price kindly supplied by skyflier, I am not so sure.
 
The 'stripping' in Wedge's terms means burning off. The chain passes down the line bypassing the pickling bath. Passing through the molten zinc burns off any paint and, it seems, zinc oxide. The chain is then returned to the start of the line and goes through the full process.
 
I have to have my anchor re-done, so while I was at it I got a quote for the chain.

Lo, the cost has trebled in the last 4 years.

Sad, when the time comes, new chain may be the way to go.
 
I had my chain regalvanised in November by a company in Central Scotland. 66m of 10mm chain plus a 20kg anchor, gave a total (galvanised) weight of 170kg.
The rate was 59.5p/kg. Total £101.15
Extras were an "Environment & Energy Surcharge" @ 9.74% =£9.85
Zinc Surcharge @ 16.25% = £16.44
VAT @ 20% = £25.49
Making a total of £152.93
Obviously, that is a lot cheaper than the price quoted by the OP, but my chain didn't go through a centrifuge, and so a (very) few links were stuck together. I haven't tried it on the gypsy yet, but see no reason for any problems. But I might leave a hammer handy in the chain locker, until it beds down.
 
skyflyer said:
In fairness to Wedge, when I asked for the price in November they said £1.55 per kilo ex VAT which is somewhere between the charge without stripping (£1.03 ex VAT) and with (£2.18 ex VAT), so I am guessing that they had included stripping in the original estimate and that costs overall have risen over a couple of months. However at no time was there any discussion about the need for the chain to be in such-and-such a condition, which is basically why I have posted this info here so other folks can be aware that it may cost a bit more.

There's an old saying that you can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter! I think the moral of the story here is don't re-galvanise unless you have good quality chain.

Having said that MM5AHO implies that a chain with NO corrosion requires more work than an old rusty one as the old zinc has to be removed?
Click to expand...

Wedge did ours 2012/3(?-i did post at the time re a possible share pallet), old but sound UK good quality 10mm chain x 60m, but hardly any galv left and very rusty, came to us from a friend very pre loved!
Came up good as new, and though not used much since, when deployed in Vordingborg N last Sept*, first 20m looked like new after thick end of 2500nm soaking wet- fresh and salt cruise.
*(Trouble with the Baltic and Friesians, the harbours are so cheap, you only anchor off when they are absolutely full or the kitty is running low:(!)
 
Hydrogen embrittlement.
I'm not trying to be a scaremonger here, just saying that risk of HE is increased with high strength steels. I have personally seen cases of failure (not anchors or chain) when these steels were acid pickled.
To clarify: Galvanizers need to get the surfacses of steel items chemically clean to galvanize them. Galvanizing isn't just a coating formed by dipping in molten zinc, its an alloying reaction between iron and zinc that forms on the surface of the steel. To get the steel chemically clean the most cost efficient way is to soak in acid. This dissolves the oxides of iron that are on the surface. 2 main oxides, FeO in case of newer steel, and Fe2O3 (rust) in older steels. The acid contains an inhibitor to prevent it attacking the base steel.
An alternative to acid cleaning is shotblasting. This is far more expensive, but easier to understand. So shotblasting works as a preparation for galvanizing, but isn't so often used for that purpose. It is used to get paint off (noted above), and paint prevents acid from cleaning the steel, so it must come off.

NormanS (above) mentions getting work done in Scotland. I recognise the numbers he quotes, so know this was done in one of our plants (I'm not trying to advertise).

Non-centrifuge galvanizing will typically have a thicker coating, and life expectancy is directly proportional to thickness.

The price mentioned of £45/ton (tonne?) for galvanizing sounds either very old (20 years ago) or an error, or a gift.

The lowest rates for commercial enterprises with thousands of tonnes to galvanize per year are in the order of £150/t. The zinc costs more than £45/t, without even melting it!
 
"The price mentioned of £45/ton (tonne?) for galvanizing sounds either very old (20 years ago) or an error, or a gift."


2009, see post 10. As to it being a mistake or a gift, I know not.
 
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Wedge have just done my chain - about 57m of 10mm (140Kg) for a total cost of £314 including stripping, environmental charge and VAT. Since the chain was nowhere narrower than 9.8mm, it was well worth re-galvanising to save perhaps £200 or more on new chain. Their estimated turnaround time is 15 working days, and they contacted me to say that it was ready after 13. I'm very satisfied with the deal and with their approach.
 
dulcibella said:
Wedge have just done my chain - about 57m of 10mm (140Kg) for a total cost of £314 including stripping, environmental charge and VAT. Since the chain was nowhere narrower than 9.8mm, it was well worth re-galvanising to save perhaps £200 or more on new chain. Their estimated turnaround time is 15 working days, and they contacted me to say that it was ready after 13. I'm very satisfied with the deal and with their approach.
Click to expand...

When you allow for 8mm vs 10mm chain that is same price as ours I think. (which you would expect). I didn't say I wasn't happy with the deal just that it worked out quite a bit more than we had originally been estimated and the difference between re-galvanising and new is narrowing every time there's an increase in their price! The purpose of the thread was not to whinge about it but to give a balanced and accurate view to others considering doing the same thing.
 
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