Raymarine pilot: sudden sharp turn

[Roberto]

I have a problem with my Raymarine (actually Autohelm) inboard pilot, it is a ST6000+, Serie 300 computer, with a mechanical linear ram.

The following happens from time to time (it may be once or twice a day):

1. Pilot engaged, all of a sudden the DIsplay reads "Overdrive" and the wheel is pushed all the way to one side, the boat obviously makes a sharp turn creating a big mess; if left like that it would continue turning I suppose.
This may happen either when we are under sail or under engine.

2. Even more serious, it happens also with a *disengaged* pilot: once we were sailing with the wind pilot, all of a sudden the pilot engages itself and tries to push all the rudder on one side, while the steering ropes of the wind steering were trying to keep the boat straight. I was nearby it so no big damage, but the forces can be very high on both the electric and wind pilot so it is not a nice occurrence. I prefer not to separate the pilot current supply from that of the instruments, meaning when the instruments are on, the pilot is on too, though always disengaged when under wind steering of course.

In both cases, if I push "Stand By" the pilot disengages and everything can be brought back to normal.


I read on the manual about the "Manual Overdrive", re-calibrated the whole thing and made sure the Manual Overdrive was set to off (which it has always been the case anyway), but that has not solved the problem. Not sure how this can be relevant as the Manual Overdrive is supposed to let the steering wheel free when a manual force is applied, which is not the case, the pilot does everything by itself.

I have not noticed any interference from other appliance being turned on/off, it may really happen at any moment, usually the less convenient :angry:


ANy suggestions as to possible causes/remedies ?

 

[slipknot]

Is there a mobile phone nearby (particularly blackberry phones in my experience)

 

[Roberto]

Is there a mobile phone nearby (particularly blackberry phones in my experience)

thanks for the suggestion

unfortunately no, no mobile phones of any kind. Well we have one (very basic must be 10yo) but it is always off and/or with a flat battery...
It also happened in the middle of the Atlantic, so no repeaters either .

On the other hand, even when I use the SSB full 100W on transmit, there is no noticeable effect on the pilot.

 

[salamicollie]

Had something similar on a S1 - though it my case it was caused by the bloody thing loosing its calibration this was traced in the end to a solder splash from the manfacture (though I pointed it out!). Also the software has had a lot of updates - worth rasing a ticket with Raymarine?

 

[oldharry]

Dont know about the 6000's but on the smaller Tillerpilots, a sudden sharp turn can be caused by failure of one of the compass sensors. I had an old autohelm that had an intermittent sensor fault and would suddenly go hard over like that. Age/cost of repairs meant a replacement, but contacting Raymarine will soon tell you whether your problem is simply one of adjustment. Proably not, I suspect.

Mobile phones have magnets which can interfere with autohelm function. I know you dont have one, but for interest: my 2000 would periodically suddenly change course by up to 20degrees. It wasnt long before I realised it happened every time I sat next to it, but took quite a bit longer to work out that the cellphone in my pocket alongside it was interfering with the compass.

 

[minkysailing]

I have a problem with my Raymarine (actually Autohelm) inboard pilot, it is a ST6000+, Serie 300 computer, with a mechanical linear ram.

The following happens from time to time (it may be once or twice a day):

1. Pilot engaged, all of a sudden the DIsplay reads "Overdrive" and the wheel is pushed all the way to one side, the boat obviously makes a sharp turn creating a big mess; if left like that it would continue turning I suppose.
This may happen either when we are under sail or under engine.

2. Even more serious, it happens also with a *disengaged* pilot: once we were sailing with the wind pilot, all of a sudden the pilot engages itself and tries to push all the rudder on one side, while the steering ropes of the wind steering were trying to keep the boat straight. I was nearby it so no big damage, but the forces can be very high on both the electric and wind pilot so it is not a nice occurrence. I prefer not to separate the pilot current supply from that of the instruments, meaning when the instruments are on, the pilot is on too, though always disengaged when under wind steering of course.

In both cases, if I push "Stand By" the pilot disengages and everything can be brought back to normal.


I read on the manual about the "Manual Overdrive", re-calibrated the whole thing and made sure the Manual Overdrive was set to off (which it has always been the case anyway), but that has not solved the problem. Not sure how this can be relevant as the Manual Overdrive is supposed to let the steering wheel free when a manual force is applied, which is not the case, the pilot does everything by itself.

I have not noticed any interference from other appliance being turned on/off, it may really happen at any moment, usually the less convenient :angry:


ANy suggestions as to possible causes/remedies ?

Had several years commissioning these systems on new boats. If the pilot makes erratic changes in direction and is correctly calibrated and no obvious magnetic items placed near the fluxgate, then it is either a faulty fluxgate or the core pack. Either way I am afraid it is a call out for a Raymarine technician.

 

[Roberto]

thanks all for the replies

so I guess there is not much I can do :sad:
unfortunately the boat is away from any (sensible) Raymarine intervention so I'll have to cope and wait till I am nearer to an efficient service location.
I asked Raymarine at the boat show but they (at least the one technician I was talking to) did not seem to have any explanation, I think I have to send the unit for service.


Oh they said, sometimes changing the calibration to "Planing Boat", then back to "Displacement" (which of course is my type of boat) may fix similar type of errors, I tried it but with no success. (If anyone else notices a strange behaviour of the pilot, it may be a first easy try to do).

 

[Cariadco]

ST 7000 fit.

Whilst sailing, My ST7000 in auto, no probs but then throws a wobler when I start, either the main engine or the Diesel Generator.
The helm swings in either direction (never noticed if it's always one way or the other)
Drops out of Auto to Standby.
Set back to Auto and all is well.
Sometimes, I actually remember to select standby before starting either of the engines...!

 

[Quandary]

Raymarine Pilot

My 6000 pilot (almost 4 years old) started intermittent misbehaviour like the OPs after launching this year, it would suddenly start bleeping and driving the ram against the stops. I tried to get help from Raymarine and was less than impressed by their service, particularly their reluctance to communicate with me; in the end a local dealer returned the display head which they said might have a 'faulty chip'; it was repaired and returned with a bill for £295, a forumite was selling a new one down in the 'for sale section' the other day for less than that. I tried to get them to explain the fault found and define the breakdown of the repair cost without success, so gave up and went sailing.
I used to be really impressed with their customer care but that was a few years ago.

 

[theoldsalt]

Cariadco,

Your symptom could be caused by a signicant voltage drop when you start the engine. My autopilot resets itself when I start my engine then it's OK.

 

[Quandary]

Roberto
I have read your post again and the symptoms you describe seem identical to those I experienced in April, the only difference I can see is that there was a bleeping sound emitted as ours misbehaved. It happened even when tied up and stationary if the instruments were left switched on. At first it was intermittent but after a few days we had to switch the whole lot off to feel safe, which was a problem entering shallow harbours until we managed to by pass the pilot on the network to allow the depth sounder etc. to function.
Advice based on my experience
If you seek advice by email they will ask you to join a sort of owners club, it seems to be based in USA judging by the times of despatch of replies which take several weeks and amounted only to 'take it to a Raymarine dealer'
The dealer will have a more direct line but his only function is to verify the symptoms you report and pass them on to Raymarine.
Raymarine will not discuss the problem, even with a dealer until the serial numbers of all relevant components have been provided.
They will probably ask for both the course computer and the instrument head to be returned.
They will give a date on which they intend to deal with your problem but they will not send the stuff back for a couple of weeks after and only then if the dealer badgers them.
They will repair rather than replace the faulty component even though the wholesale replacement cost is lower. (They never used to do this)
They will not give details of the repair on paper and will be vague in their response to the dealer, (faulty chip in the display head?), with hindsight I would insist that this is done when giving my instruction to repair.
They will give you a repair number which you must quote if it goes wrong again within a year, however they do not formally warrant the repair for that period.
I would recommend that you seek a quote from them for the repair before proceeding if you have time, you may find that a new component is cheaper.
I would also suggest seeking an independent repairer if possible, I suspect that it might be better and cheaper than Raymarine.
Good luck.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

I have had that sudden unexplained turn for no reason on two Raymarine pilots and an Alpha.
The Raymarine 4000,problem caused by helpful stowing of cordless drill within 12 inches of the fluxgate compass.It had been working fine for some hours before that..
We had one faulty controller which made things interesting too.
The Alpha got upset when the inverter got switched on ,not quite the desired remote steering adjustment required.
Just had to remember that hot water was off when auto pilot on.
Cindy

 

[sailinglegend420]

We've had two years of intermittent Autopilot problems which have finally been put down to a faulty installation by Opal Marine. They had used 7 strand rigid wire, not multi strand flexible wire, as the power cables to the unit. Six of the seven strands had broken leaving only one strand making a not very good connection. Finally the cable pulled out of the breaker on the back of the lekky panel and the autopilot stopped working. This panel is opened regularly for acces to storage space so it is amazing that it has lasted 9 years. Sometimes total failure is the only way to solve these intermittent faults.

 

[Roberto]

thanks again for the suggestions


it will probably not solve the problem, at least I have a couple of things to check before sending the CComputer back to Raymarine


r

 

[Thepipdoc]

Same thing happend to us on the way back from Jersey- it was cured by replacing the fluxgate compass.

 

[charles_reed]

Dont know about the 6000's but on the smaller Tillerpilots, a sudden sharp turn can be caused by failure of one of the compass sensors. I had an old autohelm that had an intermittent sensor fault and would suddenly go hard over like that. Age/cost of repairs meant a replacement, but contacting Raymarine will soon tell you whether your problem is simply one of adjustment. Proably not, I suspect.

Mobile phones have magnets which can interfere with autohelm function. I know you dont have one, but for interest: my 2000 would periodically suddenly change course by up to 20degrees. It wasnt long before I realised it happened every time I sat next to it, but took quite a bit longer to work out that the cellphone in my pocket alongside it was interfering with the compass.

Mine was caused by the ring-pull of a beer can, in the table locker just above the fluxgate compass - ring-pull steel, can Al.
I'd suggest checking for any magnetic material, or a cable, carrying occasional current, within 100mm of the compass.

 

[Martin_J]

There seem to be lots of suggestions as to something being accidentally placed near the fluxgate compass (or even of a faulty fluxgate)... but the question still remains - why would the display show 'overdrive'.

Overdrive has been switched off in the setup and as the OP says, it's use is to disable the AP when required...

Still intrigued how overdrive could be displayed with a fluxgate compass issue - I would suspect something more wrong with the course computer. I assume it is holding the memory settings (such as the overdrive configuration).

I also don't see how a fluxgate compass issue (either compass or something near the compass) could turn on an AP that is in standby. I guess a replacement compass is a quicker/cheaper replacement if bits are to be swapped.

 

[Roberto]

to add to MartinJ comment, sorry I forgot to mention that when the pilot goes crazy there is a tiny beep from the command display, the same sound one ears when pushing Auto/Stdby/+10... etc
"Happily" there is a sound I should add, when my wife is out she screams "Robertooooooooo the pilot has beeped" and there we go like an AC boat at the starting line

the beep might mean that the pilot is receiving *an additional command* from the computer, rather than a simple routine instruction from the compass to keep a steady heading ?

 

[sailinglegend420]

............ but the question still remains - why would the display show 'overdrive'.

Overdrive has been switched off in the setup and as the OP says, it's use is to disable the AP when required...

With our intermittent problems - see above - we got messages like "Depth too low..." when the Raymarine depth sounder is always off as we use an Echopilot forward looking sonar. We also had the autopilot turn on by itself at the entrance to Portsmouth harbour in a force 8. We though that the steering had just jammed so it caused a bit of panic!

Raymarine said we had "noise" on the Seatalk bus. This is random interference that can be induced by faulty connections, or by picking up electrical interference from other equipment. You might have a long Seatalk cable that has been disconnected from its unit but still connected to the Seatalk bus - this acts a bit like an aerial to pick up unwanted noise. The computer decodes this noise as a Seatalk message and acts accordingly.Try connecting each unit in turn with new cables to see if the fault can be eliminated.

 

[Sandy]

Raymarine said we had "noise" on the Seatalk bus. This is random interference that can be induced by faulty connections, or by picking up electrical interference from other equipment. You might have a long Seatalk cable that has been disconnected from its unit but still connected to the Seatalk bus - this acts a bit like an aerial to pick up unwanted noise. The computer decodes this noise as a Seatalk message and acts accordingly.Try connecting each unit in turn with new cables to see if the fault can be eliminated.

Raymarine make a surprising comment there! Noise on the bus I understand, but if the automotive industry can deal with far more noise then I wonder how 'robust' Seatalk is? There should be enough error checking built into the system to stop this happening.

Perhaps a wee project for me before I select the network protocols for my kit?