rich
Well-known member
What are your views, do we have the right,to come alongside????
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Rafting up?
- Thread starter rich
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bigmart
New member
It depends on the situation. On some crowded Town Quays Its the only option. Harbourmasters will often direct you to moor alongside other craft. I think you do have a moral duty to ensure the craft that you lay to can reasonable support your vessel & of course you should set proper shore lines aswell as the normal setup.
Martin
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Martin
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Reap
New member
My views????
It is of course a courtesy to ask permission to come alongside. However personally I believe this depends on the circumstances. For instance, in a busy harbour such as Yarmouth. Access to the wall is often 3 or more deep and you don't really have any right to give a negative response to someone wishing to come alongside. So on that note I do not always ask permission not wishing to have to deal with a negative response, as I would class one as unreasonable.
I do of course extend every other courtesy.
However should a harbour be pretty much empty, I would consider it unreasonable of somebody to want to come alongside when there is lots of wall space available, just so they dont have to bother with fender boards etc.
But in general terms, in answer to your question. Then yes rafting up is perfectly acceptable in fact necessary in busy waters.
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It is of course a courtesy to ask permission to come alongside. However personally I believe this depends on the circumstances. For instance, in a busy harbour such as Yarmouth. Access to the wall is often 3 or more deep and you don't really have any right to give a negative response to someone wishing to come alongside. So on that note I do not always ask permission not wishing to have to deal with a negative response, as I would class one as unreasonable.
I do of course extend every other courtesy.
However should a harbour be pretty much empty, I would consider it unreasonable of somebody to want to come alongside when there is lots of wall space available, just so they dont have to bother with fender boards etc.
But in general terms, in answer to your question. Then yes rafting up is perfectly acceptable in fact necessary in busy waters.
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AndrewB
Well-known member
What about this situation then?
You miss the tide and arrive late at 2am in a crowded foreign harbour. You're tired, and your crew are desperate to tie up and turn in. There's no space other than rafting, and no sign of life even on the harbour office VHF, everyone else seems asleep.
Do you:
a) Hail one of the yachts and wake them up to ask permission and assistance?
b) Go alongside one of the yachts and raft onto him as quietly as you can?
c) Leave the harbour and anchor off or sail elsewhere?
You miss the tide and arrive late at 2am in a crowded foreign harbour. You're tired, and your crew are desperate to tie up and turn in. There's no space other than rafting, and no sign of life even on the harbour office VHF, everyone else seems asleep.
Do you:
a) Hail one of the yachts and wake them up to ask permission and assistance?
b) Go alongside one of the yachts and raft onto him as quietly as you can?
c) Leave the harbour and anchor off or sail elsewhere?
snowleopard
Active member
Re: What about this situation then?
i had no objection to waking up and finding someone alongside and i wouldn't expect an objection if i did it.
i do get annoyed by those who try to prevent rafting in a crowded harbour (dinghy tied amidships, signs saying 'leaving 5am' or 'no mooring'.
i was also surprised when the crew of a british boat came alongside and went ashore through our cockpit. they were far enough from home to have learned better.
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i had no objection to waking up and finding someone alongside and i wouldn't expect an objection if i did it.
i do get annoyed by those who try to prevent rafting in a crowded harbour (dinghy tied amidships, signs saying 'leaving 5am' or 'no mooring'.
i was also surprised when the crew of a british boat came alongside and went ashore through our cockpit. they were far enough from home to have learned better.
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Magic_Sailor
New member
I quite like rafting up or being rafted unto (depending on the situation).
It can lead to some pleasant evenings over a glass or two.
Magic
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It can lead to some pleasant evenings over a glass or two.
Magic
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AndrewB
Well-known member
Re: What about this situation then?
That's been my assumption too. In England, north France, Belgium, it has been accepted practice. But woe betide if you try it elsewhere. I did so in the US a few years back, to be confronted by a furiously angry owner. The whole harbour was awke by the time he'd finished giving his opinion. It just isn't done there - if it's not convenient to ask permission then you simply have to go elsewhere. I suspect the same change of attitude may be taking place here.
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That's been my assumption too. In England, north France, Belgium, it has been accepted practice. But woe betide if you try it elsewhere. I did so in the US a few years back, to be confronted by a furiously angry owner. The whole harbour was awke by the time he'd finished giving his opinion. It just isn't done there - if it's not convenient to ask permission then you simply have to go elsewhere. I suspect the same change of attitude may be taking place here.
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Jacket
New member
Re: What about this situation then?
I've no objection to people putting a "Leaving 5am" sign up as long as they're really leaving then - after all, I prefer to know well in advance if I'm going to have to drag myself out of my bunk at silly o'clock in the morning to let them escape.
I especially like the ones who offer you a bacon buttie by way of appology.
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I've no objection to people putting a "Leaving 5am" sign up as long as they're really leaving then - after all, I prefer to know well in advance if I'm going to have to drag myself out of my bunk at silly o'clock in the morning to let them escape.
I especially like the ones who offer you a bacon buttie by way of appology.
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Peppermint
New member
Re:I don\'t mind provided
a. They have some fenders and lines.
b. They have vague relationship to the size of my vessel.
c. They believe me when I say I'm leaving and a couple of them actially join in when the time comes.
d. They don't tromp through my cockpit without bringing a bottle.
e. They invite me to the party.
f. When they leave I still own all my fenders and lines.
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a. They have some fenders and lines.
b. They have vague relationship to the size of my vessel.
c. They believe me when I say I'm leaving and a couple of them actially join in when the time comes.
d. They don't tromp through my cockpit without bringing a bottle.
e. They invite me to the party.
f. When they leave I still own all my fenders and lines.
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Sybarite
Well-known member
I agree it can be fun. In France in 20 years I only ever had one person grumble when I asked permission - as I always do as a matter of courtesy. He just happened to be English in a very crowded harbour in Belle Isle. He hadn't left out fenders and then complained about the size of mine.
Where it is valid to question a boat coming alongside is if you are in a berth limited by draft at low tide where you suspect that the other boat's draft might be greater than your own with the risk he might lean on you. This is just a question of obtaining common sense information and never gives offense.
John
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Where it is valid to question a boat coming alongside is if you are in a berth limited by draft at low tide where you suspect that the other boat's draft might be greater than your own with the risk he might lean on you. This is just a question of obtaining common sense information and never gives offense.
John
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LadyInBed
Well-known member
Weymouth this Bank Hol. Three rafts of four or five boats, mainly yachts, one raft of two boats. Why? because the outer of the two boats had its RIB off it's davits and tied up along side.
I wish I had thought to ask the HM if they were charging the RIB mooring fees.
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I wish I had thought to ask the HM if they were charging the RIB mooring fees.
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Jacket
New member
That's nice. they put a big fender out for you.
In those situations I always head purposefully towards the boat with its dinghy out. Its always amusing to see the last minute frantic scramble as they try and get it out the way before you come along side.
The people I really hate are the people with the big dogs, which they seem to train to maul anyone stepping aboard with a mooring line.
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In those situations I always head purposefully towards the boat with its dinghy out. Its always amusing to see the last minute frantic scramble as they try and get it out the way before you come along side.
The people I really hate are the people with the big dogs, which they seem to train to maul anyone stepping aboard with a mooring line.
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tony_brighton
New member
Had the interesting experience of being the inside boat of 5 at Poole this weekend. The outer 4 were all sailing school boats. The manners of these people were atrociously bad. As first on the quayside (just me the other skipper) we had the task of sorting out fender boards in addition to mooring up. Twice we had to wave off these school boats as we were still getting sorted - we ended up with two boats rafted up before we were finally sorted - but they were relaxing with beers in hand.
Then there were some stunning examples of bad behaviour - one bloke felt that at high tide it was far easier to jump from the quay onto our deck rather than climb down. One fat lady seemed to feel that standing on our stanchion was easier than climbing down! Climbing over the coach roof seemed a better deal for them than walking round - until someone slipped and fell with a load bang - much to our amusement. I expressed my views as loudly and politely as I could but was ready to start swinging for someone after all that lot. Not sure what these schools are teaching their students - but clearly one of them is how to p*ss off the general sailing population by ignorance and bad manners. When rafting you should accept that people are going to raft up on you - but you dont have to accept that cr*p.
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Then there were some stunning examples of bad behaviour - one bloke felt that at high tide it was far easier to jump from the quay onto our deck rather than climb down. One fat lady seemed to feel that standing on our stanchion was easier than climbing down! Climbing over the coach roof seemed a better deal for them than walking round - until someone slipped and fell with a load bang - much to our amusement. I expressed my views as loudly and politely as I could but was ready to start swinging for someone after all that lot. Not sure what these schools are teaching their students - but clearly one of them is how to p*ss off the general sailing population by ignorance and bad manners. When rafting you should accept that people are going to raft up on you - but you dont have to accept that cr*p.
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kingfisher
Well-known member
Leaving at 5am
Ah, the "leaving at 5am" excuse. My favorite. I happily more alongside, saying that it is no problem whatsoever, and that they should wake me at the appropriate time.
Then I set my alarm to 5.15. I get up, start my engine, and knock loudly on their door. I mention that they should be gratefull that I woke them, as the will otherwise miss the tide they said they would need, and that I already released their lines, and will help them on their way. You have to see the look on their faces sometimes. Now they either acknowledge that the 5am-sign is a ruse ("we changed our minds", "we have friends coming over",...), or they have to leave. I've had looks from other peoples SWMBO's that could actually freeze over hell.
It will be the last time they used that excuse.
I fully agree, a tender is just a big fender. No seriously, if only attached by its painter, it can easily be led to the back of the boat.
But then again, according to Dutch Inland Water regulations (BPR-BinnevaartPolitiereglement) you have to allow rafting.
1) Always cross the deck in front of the boat.
2) The third boat leads a fore and aft line to shore as wall, otherwise the whole stack arches back and forth.
3) White soled shoes all the way
4) Enough fenders
<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com
Ah, the "leaving at 5am" excuse. My favorite. I happily more alongside, saying that it is no problem whatsoever, and that they should wake me at the appropriate time.
Then I set my alarm to 5.15. I get up, start my engine, and knock loudly on their door. I mention that they should be gratefull that I woke them, as the will otherwise miss the tide they said they would need, and that I already released their lines, and will help them on their way. You have to see the look on their faces sometimes. Now they either acknowledge that the 5am-sign is a ruse ("we changed our minds", "we have friends coming over",...), or they have to leave. I've had looks from other peoples SWMBO's that could actually freeze over hell.
It will be the last time they used that excuse.
I fully agree, a tender is just a big fender. No seriously, if only attached by its painter, it can easily be led to the back of the boat.
But then again, according to Dutch Inland Water regulations (BPR-BinnevaartPolitiereglement) you have to allow rafting.
1) Always cross the deck in front of the boat.
2) The third boat leads a fore and aft line to shore as wall, otherwise the whole stack arches back and forth.
3) White soled shoes all the way
4) Enough fenders
<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com
Evadne
Active member
Re: Leaving at 5am
You should always read the signs. My most embarrasing time rafting up was against an amiable chap in a big posh yacht alongside Poole harbour wall, who later that day decided to touch up part of the caulking of his laid teak foredeck. Returning later, SWMBO and I didn't see his 'wet deck' sign which resulted in much seruptitious rubbing of his deck with white spirit to get the black footprints off next morning. Much to his amusement. (He might have been less amused if it hadn't come off).
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You should always read the signs. My most embarrasing time rafting up was against an amiable chap in a big posh yacht alongside Poole harbour wall, who later that day decided to touch up part of the caulking of his laid teak foredeck. Returning later, SWMBO and I didn't see his 'wet deck' sign which resulted in much seruptitious rubbing of his deck with white spirit to get the black footprints off next morning. Much to his amusement. (He might have been less amused if it hadn't come off).
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Peppermint
New member
Re: Saling school boats are shocking
We where directed alongside one at West Cowes. One guy sitting in the cockpit reading a novel. We got sorted and two more boats moored to us. As we're trolling carefully over his foredeck to go for lunch he pipes up "were going in 5 mins". Now I was only stopping for an hour and I didn't like the smug look on his chops so we had words along the lines of "well I'm sure you know what your doing and if there's a mark on her when I get back I know where you live." When we returned he was still leaving, some of his charges having delayed his departure. So if we'd hung on that would have been lunchtime gone.
I have to say I've seen it done better too. If we hadn't pointed out our sternline he'd of backed over it.
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We where directed alongside one at West Cowes. One guy sitting in the cockpit reading a novel. We got sorted and two more boats moored to us. As we're trolling carefully over his foredeck to go for lunch he pipes up "were going in 5 mins". Now I was only stopping for an hour and I didn't like the smug look on his chops so we had words along the lines of "well I'm sure you know what your doing and if there's a mark on her when I get back I know where you live." When we returned he was still leaving, some of his charges having delayed his departure. So if we'd hung on that would have been lunchtime gone.
I have to say I've seen it done better too. If we hadn't pointed out our sternline he'd of backed over it.
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Peppermint
New member
Re: I\'m told that
a sure fire way of remaining un rafted to is to hang a few nappies of the rail. Better than a wet paint sign I'm told.
A guy I know tells me that rafting up on fishing boats is risky. He claims that in Brixham having arrived late he tied up alongside a substantial trawler and turned in. He is awoken by the sound of water sluicing past his lugholes. On sticking his head out the hatch he gets the full benefit of sunrise on the Cornish Riviera from the sea. Thats because he's doing 12 knots due south. The trawler crew being of a hungover condition had stumbled back to the trawler cast off and headed out.
They were unimpressed when they noticed him too.
I had another dodgy experience in Weymouth. Directed by the HM to raft on a big old MFV we did a standard approach, took up a nice position and away went the line handlers. Or did they? They are balanced on the bulwarks of said MFV like constipated hens. It turned out that the MFV had no deck planking. Talk about look before you leap.
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a sure fire way of remaining un rafted to is to hang a few nappies of the rail. Better than a wet paint sign I'm told.
A guy I know tells me that rafting up on fishing boats is risky. He claims that in Brixham having arrived late he tied up alongside a substantial trawler and turned in. He is awoken by the sound of water sluicing past his lugholes. On sticking his head out the hatch he gets the full benefit of sunrise on the Cornish Riviera from the sea. Thats because he's doing 12 knots due south. The trawler crew being of a hungover condition had stumbled back to the trawler cast off and headed out.
They were unimpressed when they noticed him too.
I had another dodgy experience in Weymouth. Directed by the HM to raft on a big old MFV we did a standard approach, took up a nice position and away went the line handlers. Or did they? They are balanced on the bulwarks of said MFV like constipated hens. It turned out that the MFV had no deck planking. Talk about look before you leap.
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whisper
New member
What about rafting up on a mooring? Does the panel thimk that this is any different?
Obviously one would need to know the capacity of the mooring in question but otherwise is your experience the same ? I've recently read a "pilot" that stated that the boat first on the mooring should discourage any others . Admittedly, this did refer to certain Scottish waters.
I suppose one could repel boarders by waving a Haggis at them or even worse throw one of those ghastly meat pies they produce up there.
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Obviously one would need to know the capacity of the mooring in question but otherwise is your experience the same ? I've recently read a "pilot" that stated that the boat first on the mooring should discourage any others . Admittedly, this did refer to certain Scottish waters.
I suppose one could repel boarders by waving a Haggis at them or even worse throw one of those ghastly meat pies they produce up there.
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webcraft
Well-known member
Re: Rafting up on a mooring
Rafting up on a mooring is quite different as the mooring is certified for a certain maximum tonnage and you have to be careful not to exceed that. In Scotland it is generally accepted that the rule is one mooring one boat and latecomers will have to find somewhere to anchor.
Having said that, I wouldn't mind if the total tonnage was within limits but would definitely expect to be asked first on a mooring. If it was a mooring I was paying for (as opposed to a free ex-HIDB one) then I would expect the latecomer to pay half the cost if the mooring owner didn't charge them.
We have to draw the line somewhere though, or people will be rafting up when we're at anchor . . .
- Nick
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Rafting up on a mooring is quite different as the mooring is certified for a certain maximum tonnage and you have to be careful not to exceed that. In Scotland it is generally accepted that the rule is one mooring one boat and latecomers will have to find somewhere to anchor.
Having said that, I wouldn't mind if the total tonnage was within limits but would definitely expect to be asked first on a mooring. If it was a mooring I was paying for (as opposed to a free ex-HIDB one) then I would expect the latecomer to pay half the cost if the mooring owner didn't charge them.
We have to draw the line somewhere though, or people will be rafting up when we're at anchor . . .
- Nick
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LadyInBed
Well-known member
It's the norm in Salcombe.
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