Rafting etiquette

[Concerto]

I have a teak cockpit and painted non slip decks. I never worry about people crossing my deck to get ashore. However I have made it easy to get onboard as I have fitted side gates and being an older boat she does have lower topsides than modern boats. If someone tries to step over the liflines they find the 27" height far more difficult than the standard 24" they are used to.

There are two things I expect anyone to abide by is NEVER cut across my cockpit to get ashore and do not step on my beautifully varnished toe rail.

 

[RupertW]

I’m firmly in the camp of “Don’t be silly” and “Get over yourself”, and if I ever got invited to a boat where the skipper cleaned my “boat shoes” I would seriously wonder whether he’d insist on aiming my tackle to avoid sprinkling his special loo seats.

 

[mikegunn]

I agree with OP and had a similar experience a few weekends ago in Yarmouth. Larger sail boat rafting outside us (smaller mobo) requiring them to come into our enclosed cockpit and then leave over the swim platform. No lines to shore. Worst, skipper and teenage sons all wearing mountain boots with black rubber shoes making marks as they go.

When on other people's boats, act respectfully!

Interestingly, although I’m a stick ‘n rag man I’ve found mobo owners to be the more considerate.
Mike

 

[superheat6k]

cool ,, i for one would be very pleased if you wouldnt moor beside me either .

More than happy with that, but I do reserve the public right to use public mooring facilities. My shoes will of course be clean and non marking boat shoes, but they are not coming off. However, if the owners are aboard and visible I will always ask permission to cross, and never through the cockpit, save when a necessity when tying up. Stupid rules being presented so to do might be politely declined, however.

Perhaps those too precious to understand the concept of a public shared mooring arrangement simply anchor or use marinas where rafting is not a concern.

 

[stu9000]

Come on folks. We might raise an eyebrow but if the boat owner requested we do our best to keep his new deck clean why would we not?

 

[cherod]

More than happy with that, but I do reserve the public right to use public mooring facilities. My shoes will of course be clean and non marking boat shoes, but they are not coming off.

Perhaps those too precious to understand the concept of a public shared mooring arrangement simply anchor or use marinas where rafting is not a concern.

If your shoes are such then there would be no need for removal , but aparently the general public ate not so considerste , as you say , best stay away from such public access areas

 

[superheat6k]

If your shoes are such then there would be no need for removal , but aparently the general public ate not so considerste , as you say , best stay away from such public access areas

Ah we can agree then, so if we do meet then please join me for a beer - and keep your shoes on please.

 

[cherod]

Ah we can agree then, so if we do meet then please join me for a beer - and keep your shoes on please.

You kind sir , i would be pleased to , and my shoes will be suitably shining ??

 

[Sea-Fever]

I have what I consider a dubious privilege of teak decks on our yacht, new-to-us last year. I and all crew, including guests, have "boat shoes" and "shore shoes". Boat shoes are scrubbed once, (by me, as a courtesy) and then not worn beyond the immediate pontoon. The decks are never scrubbed, only the shoes. These seem to me obvious precautions to help postpone the vast replacement cost for as many years as possible.

We just found ourselves as "inside boat" for the first time. I asked the "outside boat" if they would please oblige by removing shore shoes to cross our boat. They refused and gave me a deaf ear; she in particular indicated that as far as they were concerned they were older than me, had been owners for longer, knew all about boat shoes, generally knew more than me and would do as they pleased. Which, as it turned out, also involved not rigging shorelines despite 35 knot winds, heaving on my guardrails (which is another no-no) despite there being a fender step rigged to the shrouds, and would of course explain why their own guardrails dangled on loose stanchions like a cheap stripper's wotsits in a loose bra.

I didn't take the argument further, so be it. No cross words, but....

I have ALWAYS been in the habit of asking permission to cross decks, and jolly well welcoming any instructions or requests; that being the flip side of expecting an inside boat to accommodate you and not grumble about it. To me, this is not a case of "treat the inside boat as you would your own"...because, indeed, we are quite entitled to set our own standards...but "treat the inside boat as the owner would ask". Surely obvious?

For what it's worth, the RYA seems to agree.

Rafting Etiquette | Inbrief | e-newsletters | News & Events | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

What does anyone else think? If you want to cross my decks, can I ask you (please) to remove (or scrub) your shore shoes? Should I have pushed the issue further? Or would you grumble and ignore me, because it's your standards that count, not mine?

I am currently feeling miffed, and minded to stick up for myself next time.

Is it sunny on this particular day??
What if it's raining....shoes off then???
What if I only have one pair of shoes?
Maybe you could carry me across your decks and gently place me down on the next boat.
Obviously before you did this I would expect you to shower and wear a fresh shirt. If you didn't have one, that's ok because as a courtesy I would bring one.

If your boat is that perfect then park it somewhere else, where no-one will touch it.

 

[westhinder]

I accept the OP has every right to require his crew and guests to remove their shore shoes and wear dedicated footwear on board. In the south of France most yachts with teak decks provide a big basket next to the gangway for that very purpose.
The same request when rafted may be pushing it a bit far. After all it is only for one night or a couple at most. If your deck can not withstand that, it is not fit for purpose and not worth the money. That said, I would remove my shoes when requested to do so as it is not worth a discussion, but I would be surprised to say the least.
By all means, if you feel that strongly about your decks, provide a mat for the neighbours to wipe their shoes, that will clearly convey the message. I have seen that on a couple of occasions, but I have never been asked to remove my shoes when rafted up in 35 years of sailing. By the way, would you accept liability if I stubbed and broke my toe on an unfamiliar deck if you had insisted I remove my shoes?
I will insist those who raft up put out ample fenders, use springs and not just breast ropes and put out shorelines if conditions warrant it, but I accept I may have to scrub the deck (not a teak one) afterwards.
What annoys me more is people who stomp across the decks like an elephant or who twang the shrouds as they pass

 

[LittleSister]

I am all for being considerate and respectful, and always would try to be sympathetic to owners' requests, but I suspect that the OP's expectations are unrealistic.

If you are on the inside of a raft, people will be coming over your boat. As someone suggested, get yourself some carpet tiles or find somewhere else to stay.

I would not ask permission to cross a boat rafted inshore of me (I don't need their 'permission', and what if they refused?), but I would say e.g. 'excuse me' and smile if they were around.

I would always put out shorelines if possible, but I have been in a few situations where the distance or angles involved made this impractical or completely ineffective, and so I've tried to work out some arrangement to the satisfaction of the neighbours. (My boat is usually much smaller than the others rafted, so sometimes shorelines would be sawing away at the hull of the next boat inshore.) But if 35 knots were forecast I wouldn't be rafting up at all if I could help it!

I don't like people hanging on my lifelines or stanchions, because they're vulnerable, but unless they're putting a lot of weight on them I wouldn't bother to say anything. It's just part of life. (I've never understood the problem some people have with people hanging onto their shrouds. If the shrouds can't take that, then you've got bigger problems.)

I would almost always cross a rafted boat by the foredeck, unless the owner had requested a different route be taken, though a few times I have been stymied by the foredeck being blocked by an inflatable dinghy, or there being nowhere but aft one could cross from one boat to another.

I did have a conundrum stormbound for a few days in St. Peter Port a few years back, in that crossing the foredeck of the small boat inshore of us gave a bird's eye view through the forehatch of the couple on the boat in their bed! Next time we crossed we went round the cockpit, to give them privacy, only to discover they were now up and looking out of the companionway.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I have what I consider a dubious privilege of teak decks on our yacht, new-to-us last year. I and all crew, including guests, have "boat shoes" and "shore shoes". Boat shoes are scrubbed once, (by me, as a courtesy) and then not worn beyond the immediate pontoon. The decks are never scrubbed, only the shoes. These seem to me obvious precautions to help postpone the vast replacement cost for as many years as possible.

We just found ourselves as "inside boat" for the first time. I asked the "outside boat" if they would please oblige by removing shore shoes to cross our boat. They refused and gave me a deaf ear; she in particular indicated that as far as they were concerned they were older than me, had been owners for longer, knew all about boat shoes, generally knew more than me and would do as they pleased. Which, as it turned out, also involved not rigging shorelines despite 35 knot winds, heaving on my guardrails (which is another no-no) despite there being a fender step rigged to the shrouds, and would of course explain why their own guardrails dangled on loose stanchions like a cheap stripper's wotsits in a loose bra.

I didn't take the argument further, so be it. No cross words, but....

I have ALWAYS been in the habit of asking permission to cross decks, and jolly well welcoming any instructions or requests; that being the flip side of expecting an inside boat to accommodate you and not grumble about it. To me, this is not a case of "treat the inside boat as you would your own"...because, indeed, we are quite entitled to set our own standards...but "treat the inside boat as the owner would ask". Surely obvious?

For what it's worth, the RYA seems to agree.

Rafting Etiquette | Inbrief | e-newsletters | News & Events | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

What does anyone else think? If you want to cross my decks, can I ask you (please) to remove (or scrub) your shore shoes? Should I have pushed the issue further? Or would you grumble and ignore me, because it's your standards that count, not mine?

I am currently feeling miffed, and minded to stick up for myself next time.

Whilst they may have appeared tad rude to you I would say that I'm not taking my sailing shoes off for you and your guard rails should have a minimum breaking load of 1300 kg if they are standard 4mm wire rope so wind your neck in.

If you want to be a rafting Nazi then make sure you are doing it on private property.

Sailing is supposed to be a friendly community. If your teak deck is so precious put some old carpet over the bit you want people to walk over.

or don't raft up if you don't want people walking over your deck!

 

[LittleSister]

your guard rails should have a minimum breaking load of 1300 kg if they are standard 4mm wire rope

The wire may be amply strong, but the attachment of the guard rail stanchions to the deck on most sailing boats is not capable of withstanding a sideways load of anything like that (as I know to my cost).

 

[LadyInBed]

1 I have trouble putting my shoes on without a shoe horn.
2 Dirty shoes are a possibility when returning, not normally leaving, so if you want to keep your deck clean, provide a couple of mats and a sign saying Please wipe your feet.

 

[RJJ]

And suggesting your standards are superior because others won't remove their shoes is simply snobbery.

No, it's just different standards. Clearly in this thread opinion is about 50/50. But in addition there are (for example) those who think it's acceptable to hang on guardrails and those who don't. I bet those in the former camp have saggy guardrails; they wouldn't pass scrutiny for RORC or the ARC so why should the latter camp be obliged to accept their behaviour?

Still others, of course, will inflict inadequate dirty fenders on your topsides, bring pets over your decks without asking, walk through your cockpit, come back at 2am making a racket, lead their lines incorrectly etc. Are those acceptable? Or are we all being snobbish?

Clearly we have all learned different things at some point - I have just learned, for example, that I should never tread on a varnished gunwale. So I won't. I don't need to know why, or question the owner's "prissy-knickered" "materialism", I just need to behave as a guest and do as I am asked. Like I said, the flip side of expecting mooring rights and access.

There is no basis for rules here, only tradition. It seems more appropriate for the tradition to be based around (1) consideration of the inside owner (2) in his)her absence, erring towards punctilious standards, than around what the outside owner may or may not be bothered to do.

I would seriously wonder whether he’d insist on aiming my tackle to avoid sprinkling

As it happens I sailed for twenty years with a bloke who insisted all men pee seated. The heads didn't suffer "sprinkling" and were more pleasant for all, and less work for him (or whoever took a turn cleaning up). Somehow it never struck me to criticise his standards.

 

[sailorman]

Me, or the other folks? And why?

Yes you, if you are concerned about your yacht when rafted up, then best not to i would have thought

 

[sailorman]

In this instance I firmly agree with RichardS. In my opinion we should treat all other vessels as their owners would wish. I’m not too fussy about deck shoes as I don’t have teak decks, but if I did I’d be very particular about any footware touching its surface. Having said that I’ve had to admonish more than one person this year who has just clambered onto my boat to visit a rafted vessel without acknowledging my presence when I’ve been in the cockpit. Just a simple ”may I?“ is all I ask, but all too often these days ones deck is treated as a right of way. Is it me, or is there a generation (mainly in their 30’s and 40’s) emerging that seems to have a distorted sense of entitlement? A generation that think only of themselves And their immediate needs. Or is it a sign that I really am getting old?
Mike

I do not walk bare foot on my own yacht, i do not wish to stub my toes on hardware, so for the same reason i keep my Sebago`s on

 

[HissyFit]

Advance notice to all:
I will be applying Japanese rules of etiquette for entry to my boat. Before stepping up you will be presented with guest slippers. On boarding you will be expected to bow and express your regret for the intrusion (even if you're invited). If you do not come bearing visiting gift... well then...

 

[john_morris_uk]

I am all for being considerate and respectful....
I would not ask permission to cross a boat rafted inshore of me (I don't need their 'permission', and what if they refused?), but I would say e.g. 'excuse me' and smile if they were around.

Might I respectfully suggest you’re wrong. I think one should always ask permission to cross someone else’s boat but know that it’s a rhetorical question. The inside boat is obliged to say yes (and indicate any preferences as to how and where you cross). It’s just part of the etiquette of rafting and being polite.

 

[superheat6k]

No, it's just different standards. Clearly in this thread opinion is about 50/50. But in addition there are (for example) those who think it's acceptable to hang on guardrails and those who don't. I bet those in the former camp have saggy guardrails; they wouldn't pass scrutiny for RORC or the ARC so why should the latter camp be obliged to accept their behaviour?

Still others, of course, will inflict inadequate dirty fenders on your topsides, bring pets over your decks without asking, walk through your cockpit, come back at 2am making a racket, lead their lines incorrectly etc. Are those acceptable? Or are we all being snobbish?

Clearly we have all learned different things at some point - I have just learned, for example, that I should never tread on a varnished gunwale. So I won't. I don't need to know why, or question the owner's "prissy-knickered" "materialism", I just need to behave as a guest and do as I am asked. Like I said, the flip side of expecting mooring rights and access.

There is no basis for rules here, only tradition. It seems more appropriate for the tradition to be based around (1) consideration of the inside owner (2) in his)her absence, erring towards punctilious standards, than around what the outside owner may or may not be bothered to do.




As it happens I sailed for twenty years with a bloke who insisted all men pee seated. The heads didn't suffer "sprinkling" and were more pleasant for all, and less work for him (or whoever took a turn cleaning up). Somehow it never struck me to criticise his standards.

Er, but your sentence clearly said lower standards, hence my comment about being a snob. So if you are changing your wording then I in return retract my comment snob.

I fully agree that undue weight should not be placed on guardrail stanchions, although shrouds should not ever have an issue with the heaviest drunkard leaning on them, except perhaps on a very small boat. I also agree the elephant footed, late night, shroud twanging fools are a PITA.

I do have difficulty crossing the bow of large high top motorboats where to do so involves considerable personal risk, but most motorboaters' with such high bows will politely invite crossing the stern. On my own boat I will open the guardrail gap for those outboard of me to use to make crossing simpler.

Please be aware my dog is allowed indeed encouraged to use the foredeck for his toilet requirements and he does not always tell us when he has been ! I do warn crossers to check when passing.