paul salliss
Well-Known Member
I am based on The Hamble and could do with some Radar tuition. Any suggestions please?? Many thanks
Radar tuition
- Thread starter paul salliss
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NewForester
Member
I am going on a 2 day Radar course with Mendez Marine, and it is based on the Hamble.
paul salliss
Well-Known Member
I did a lot of tuition with MM back in 09 to 11 they were fab. I admit the radar piece was the one I missed and was aware they offered a two day course in this, but is two days a bit much for radar seems like a lot of time
Switch
Well-Known Member
Is this in a classroom or own boat tuition?
P430
Member
We had Jon Mendez do a radar course on our own boat quite a few years ago. I know Julie Proudfoot works with MM now and she has done tuition on our own boat - highly recommended but only if you have a good supply of tea!!
PilotWolf
Well-Known Member
I know its commercial but the basic radar observer course here in the US is 5 days. Although if the syllabus was updated 3 would be more than enough (that said it was worrying to see some 'professionals' ability).
W.
MarkP1
Member
Does anybody know of a radar course in the western Solent near Christchurch or anything online? Thanks
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Hurricane
Well-Known Member
See post #2
Jon Mendez's school is on the Hamble - IMO, you can't get a better school.
EDIT
Here's his website RYA Training Courses Southampton | Powerboat Courses | Mendez Marine
He occasionally pops up on this forum
Jon Mendez's school is on the Hamble - IMO, you can't get a better school.
EDIT
Here's his website RYA Training Courses Southampton | Powerboat Courses | Mendez Marine
He occasionally pops up on this forum
NewForester
Member
It is Classroom, but Mendez has some sort of Radar simulator setup to work on. So, as I understand it, first day is a bit of theory and the second day is hands on with their Radar simulator.
ashtead
Well-Known Member
At one time raymarine hosted a one day radar session with an independent instructor using the raymarine kit set up. It clearly really helps if you have bought a bit of raymarine kit but don’t know if such courses still exist. For me the attraction was more the kit tuition but it was a useful day out.
Switch
Well-Known Member
I did attend a Raymarine class room course a few years ago. Whilst useful, I’d really like some own boat tuition for ‘real life’ experience. If anyone is interested in doubling up/sharing some own boat tuition with Mendes Marine or other let me know.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
This is all talk.
Yes, Jon and his team can help if you need some instruction.
But, really, there is nothing better than actually switching the kit on and playing with it.
If you have problems understanding it, then have a look at the manual.
I was lucky enough to have been present during a talk given by Robert Avis - it was on the Isle of Wight and I believe that Jon Mendes was in the audience at the same time.
Robert is no longer with us but his presentation was informative as well as instructional.
But after his presentation, I got most out of sitting down with my own kits and playing with it.
Without belittling Robert's presentation, the only operational point that I "took away" as being important is that Radar is hopeless at angular measurement.
But Radar is very good at measuring distance.
So to to get a position fix from Radar (and I never actually need a fix from Radar) you make your "cocked hat" from distances rather than from angles as you would with (say) a compass.
So, to recap - don't talk about it - get out and use it.
Yes, Jon and his team can help if you need some instruction.
But, really, there is nothing better than actually switching the kit on and playing with it.
If you have problems understanding it, then have a look at the manual.
I was lucky enough to have been present during a talk given by Robert Avis - it was on the Isle of Wight and I believe that Jon Mendes was in the audience at the same time.
Robert is no longer with us but his presentation was informative as well as instructional.
But after his presentation, I got most out of sitting down with my own kits and playing with it.
Without belittling Robert's presentation, the only operational point that I "took away" as being important is that Radar is hopeless at angular measurement.
But Radar is very good at measuring distance.
So to to get a position fix from Radar (and I never actually need a fix from Radar) you make your "cocked hat" from distances rather than from angles as you would with (say) a compass.
So, to recap - don't talk about it - get out and use it.
Piers
Well-Known Member
Robert Avis was, without doubt, the radar supremo. Years ago, I was asked by Motor Boats Monthly to attend one of his courses and write an article about it which I did,. It's reproduced here: Radar, MARPA and Radar Assisted Collisions | Play d'eau
Other mags have asked for the article to be reproduced in one form or another.
Vital points are not to use radar as a get out of jail free card; remembering that the ColRegs all change when in restricted vis; and how to avoid radar assisted collisions.
Other mags have asked for the article to be reproduced in one form or another.
Vital points are not to use radar as a get out of jail free card; remembering that the ColRegs all change when in restricted vis; and how to avoid radar assisted collisions.
Greg2
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with Hurricane when it comes to leisure boaters - I did the RYA Radar course many moons ago and we spent quite a lot of time learning how to plot a target manually, something that with MARPA / ARPA now being standard functionality is a thing of the past for leisure boaters. In fact, if you have Raymarine’s Quantum Doppler radar it literally does it for you.
With modern kit it isn’t difficult to to grasp the basic principles that will serve most leisure boaters well in most circumstances pottering around the coast but a course may provide some added value, providing that you can remember it when the circumstance arises several years later! ?
With modern kit it isn’t difficult to to grasp the basic principles that will serve most leisure boaters well in most circumstances pottering around the coast but a course may provide some added value, providing that you can remember it when the circumstance arises several years later! ?
Piers
Well-Known Member
Accurate MARPA / ARPA depends whether your radar is fed with Speed through Water versus SOG, and Boat Heading versus COG. Hence, radar assisted collisions...
[70521]
Well-Known Member
I did the RYA Radar Course at SeaRegs in Plymouth about a year a go and was delighted when I walked into the room and Jon Mendez was taking the course. A lovely guy and a real gentleman.
The course of brilliant as it works from first principles. While all the modern stuff does all the plotting you have an understanding as how it does it.
The course of brilliant as it works from first principles. While all the modern stuff does all the plotting you have an understanding as how it does it.
st599
Well-Known Member
The RYA RADAR course was being upgraded, then Covid got in the way. Hopefully they'll finish the new course and book soon (and hopefully remove 4 hours of plotting by hand)
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Even then, I don't think radar is particularly accurate.
I use mine but really only for collision avoidance and maybe looking up some old racons for a bit of fun.
Also the radar can see weather (particularly rain) before you get to it - sometimes allowing us to dodge the rain.
Rain usually brings with it a change in pressure thus creating strong local winds.
Here's an example of the radar showing rain as I approached Mallorca.
I was single handed at the time with the bimini up so I took it down as a precaution.
That squall generated about 25 knots extra headwind.
I was in a hurry to get round the corner into one of the Palma Bay anchorages so with 25 knots of boat speed plus the extra wind speed - the bimini would have been shaking around!!
In the UK, we used it seriously in fog but since moving to the Med 14 years ago, we haven't seen any fog.
As I say, for navigation it is a bit of a waste of time.
I could plot a position on a chart using radar but lots of systems would have to fail before I resorted to actually navigating using radar.
Three fixed GPS systems on the boat - two independent plotting systems (one of which is a dual Raymarine system)
Then there are the mobile phones/tablets - at least 4 of those on board.
Even the tender has its own system that could be used in the event of other systems failing.
Then there is nav kit in the grab bag - hand held GPS and hand held compass.
Plus two DSC handheld VHF radios - each with its own GPS
Some of these backup systems would rely on paper charts of course.
If all the fixed systems on the boat failed, radar would probably have failed with them but I suspect that my Android tablet or phone would be high on the list.
Back to the point, to use radar to navigate (with its inherent inaccuracy) would be WAY down my list.
So, on a passage, I would have the radar powered up and running on one of my displays but really only useful for collision avoidance and dodging the weather.
Greg2
Well-Known Member
Yes, a good point and perhaps one that might not be picked up by reading the manual although I suspect that most leisure boaters would give a radar target that posed a risk of collision a wide berth. I know I do! But a useful thing to know nonetheless.
Piers
Well-Known Member
The last point is to ensure your radar is sea-stabilised. On the article I referenced (Radar, MARPA and Radar Assisted Collisions | Play d'eau) look part way down the page to the heading 'Two pics which may help'. followed by 'Tacht Wahkuna and P&O Netlloyd Vespucci'.
The problem for leisure radar manufacturers is the cost of providing Speed through Water (not SOG) and and Boat Heading (not COG). Play d'eau was fitted with a commercial Furuno and handled MARPA really well.
I believe Robert Avis's book (Using Radar) is still available. It's a radar users bible.
