Radar training

[Daverw]

We fitted radar for the first time last year, never used one before, so easy to use with chart overlay, on plotter. Just played with it on dock and then again water all basic stuff self explanatory, did stuff on RTY courses but with the speed of tech advance don’t think they will ever keep up, the stuff I had covered had no real relevance at all

 

[johnalison]

In coastal use, the radar/chart overlay function makes the radar image much easier to understand.

I occasionally use the overlay, but when I do so I don’t get the range of colours and tones that appear on the single screen. It is also harder to adjust gain and other controls effectively.

People’s ability to perceive space vary considerably. Personally, I have no difficulty transferring information when switching from radar to chart and back, even if the scale and orientation are different, though my usual practice is north-up for both.

 

[pvb]

I occasionally use the overlay, but when I do so I don’t get the range of colours and tones that appear on the single screen. It is also harder to adjust gain and other controls effectively.

Perhaps a lot depends on the plotter make/model.

 

[TernVI]

Overlaying the radar on the chart plotter is a great aid for people seeking to convince themselves the radar agrees with what the chart plotter tells them.

The radar fundametally can stand alone. Self contained, real time and all that.
Like the depth sounder

The fun starts when the systems start telling you different things!

 

[glynd]

I've not used radar before but am about to fit B&G Halo 20+

I'm fitting it primarily so I can do extended singlehanded passages by using it as a proximity alarm to wake me up (it will be wired to a 100db alarm) but of course there are loads of other benefits beyond just avoiding collisions (squalls / navigation etc) and the Halo 20 looks a nice piece of kit that I would like to get the most from

I'm sure it will be reasonably intuitive but I think I should attend a course and learn it properly, although I've heard (from someone in the know) that the RYA syllabus isn't great and should probably be re-written. Does anyone have any comments? Are all radars essentially the same or will I learn on one brand (or simulator) and then struggle to convert to my particular set?

Any recommendations either for online providers or local to Southampton radar training providers?

Cheers

Just did one online (lockdown boredom more than anything), and wouldn't bother.

Main thing I took away was a SART likely won't show up on small boat radars as they operate specifically on X-band frequencies.
Which is odd, as looking at the specs for Raymarine Chirp ones they are X-band...

Anyone tried a SART recently with a small boat radar?

 

[matt1]

You could start here if you like: Essential Boat Radar.

I should declare an interest here: I wrote it.

It contains quite a lot of suggested practical exercises.

Am really enjoying this book! Can highly recommend it, especially if you are a bear with a small brain, like me and need techy stuff explained in simple terms. Already I feel much more informed and I'm only on chapter 3

 

[PilotWolf]

Just did one online (lockdown boredom more than anything), and wouldn't bother.

Main thing I took away was a SART likely won't show up on small boat radars as they operate specifically on X-band frequencies.
Which is odd, as looking at the specs for Raymarine Chirp ones they are X-band...

Anyone tried a SART recently with a small boat radar?

What defines a ‘small bot radar’?

From memory our SART tests showed up on a small boat Furuno radar.

W

 

[RobbieW]

What defines a ‘small bot radar’?

From memory our SART tests showed up on a small boat Furuno radar.

W

I think this refers to the use of 'broadband' radar now common on small boats. The transmission doesnt trigger a SART or a SeaMe transponder as magnetron based X band transmission would

 

[Kukri]

Am really enjoying this book! Can highly recommend it, especially if you are a bear with a small brain, like me and need techy stuff explained in simple terms. Already I feel much more informed and I'm only on chapter 3

Ive just ordered it from Amazon. Three copies left, now.

I think (and I may be wrong) that the big danger with untrained / inexperienced use of radar on small boats is the risk of mis-interpretation of the screen leading to a “radar assisted collision”. I recall an MAIB report on the loss of a yacht in collision which was attributed to this.

Google has just directed me to an article written by... me. Severe senior moment!

Collision of the liner Stockholm and the Andrea Doria on 25 July 1956 inheavy fog

 

[Never Grumble]

I recall an MAIB report on the loss of a yacht in collision which was attributed to this.

Probably thinking of P&O Nedlloyd Vespucci and yacht Wahkuna

 

[matt1]

Ive just ordered it from Amazon. Three copies left, now.

I think (and I may be wrong) that the big danger with untrained / inexperienced use of radar on small boats is the risk of mis-interpretation of the screen leading to a “radar assisted collision”. I recall an MAIB report on the loss of a yacht in collision which was attributed to this.

Google has just directed me to an article written by... me. Severe senior moment!

Collision of the liner Stockholm and the Andrea Doria on 25 July 1956 inheavy fog

There was also the one with the Moody and a container ship in the Channel

https://assets.publishing.service.g...d4c100000bb/nedlloyd_vespucci_and_wahkuna.pdf

 

[Kukri]

Well, that shows that nobody clicks on links! ???

 

[Gary Fox]

I think this refers to the use of 'broadband' radar now common on small boats. The transmission doesnt trigger a SART or a SeaMe transponder as magnetron based X band transmission would

That's right, and not Racons either.

 

[Never Grumble]

Well, that shows that nobody clicks on links! ???

I did click on the link but read the heading ... I then checked my files for the reference to the Wahkuna. I clearly didn't keep a full watch

 

[alexincornwall]

I've not used radar before but am about to fit B&G Halo 20+

I'm fitting it primarily so I can do extended singlehanded passages by using it as a proximity alarm to wake me up (it will be wired to a 100db alarm) but of course there are loads of other benefits beyond just avoiding collisions (squalls / navigation etc) and the Halo 20 looks a nice piece of kit that I would like to get the most from

I'm sure it will be reasonably intuitive but I think I should attend a course and learn it properly, although I've heard (from someone in the know) that the RYA syllabus isn't great and should probably be re-written. Does anyone have any comments? Are all radars essentially the same or will I learn on one brand (or simulator) and then struggle to convert to my particular set?

Any recommendations either for online providers or local to Southampton radar training providers?

Cheers

If you're simply looking to set up a guard zone and alarm, you probably wouldn't need to read a book or attend a course, but you'd need to understand the effects of sea clutter etc. If you want to safely plot targets that enter that zone, I think you'd struggle to self teach yourself. We use a Halo20 connected to a Zeus 3s and it's a user friendly system, but I'd definitely recommend spending the time to interrogate all of the menus before setting off in the fog!

Radar doesn't actually crop up in a YM Offshore exam but the day long course is recommended for as part of the syllabus. It goes through plotting in detail, but the simulator used could do with updating - it's very basic. Onboard training is the way to go for radar IMO.

 

[Kukri]

I did click on the link but read the heading ... I then checked my files for the reference to the Wahkuna. I clearly didn't keep a full watch

I’m still laughing - but since I had forgotten my own article, I reckon I need a refresher course!

Anyway, the article stands the test of time, I think.

Incidentally the “Stockholm”, much rebuilt and now the oldest cruise liner still in business, is for sale for scrap as the “Astoria”.

Article on radar assisted collision between the P&O Nedlloyd Vespucci and the yacht “Wahkuna” here:

Collision of the liner Stockholm and the Andrea Doria on 25 July 1956 inheavy fog

 

[PilotWolf]

That's right, and not Racons either.

I ve never used a broadband radar but find that rather worrying and would be a definite reason not to buy or spec one for a vessel.

W.

 

[matt1]

If you're simply looking to set up a guard zone and alarm, you probably wouldn't need to read a book or attend a course, but you'd need to understand the effects of sea clutter etc. If you want to safely plot targets that enter that zone, I think you'd struggle to self teach yourself. We use a Halo20 connected to a Zeus 3s and it's a user friendly system, but I'd definitely recommend spending the time to interrogate all of the menus before setting off in the fog!

Radar doesn't actually crop up in a YM Offshore exam but the day long course is recommended for as part of the syllabus. It goes through plotting in detail, but the simulator used could do with updating - it's very basic. Onboard training is the way to go for radar IMO.

That's good to hear, thanks, as your system is essentially the same as mine

One of the reasons I've resisted radar in the past, is the need to really know it well enough to comply with col regs, so using it just to set guard zones isn't really an option as col regs require me to use all available means to avoid a collision. I'd intended to get familiar with it in good vis first and hopefully that will help me when I do get caught out in poor viz

 

[Gary Fox]

I ve never used a broadband radar but find that rather worrying and would be a definite reason not to buy or spec one for a vessel.

W.

The FM radars have huge advantages though, if I was buying a yacht radar I would go FM. Miniscule power consumption, smaller and lighter, no warm-up period, sharp resolution at close range, and they have enough power to reach the horizon. Obviously they have MARPA, guard zones etc. How often do cruising yachts need to see Racons or SARTS?

 

[alexincornwall]

That's good to hear, thanks, as your system is essentially the same as mine

One of the reasons I've resisted radar in the past, is the need to really know it well enough to comply with col regs, so using it just to set guard zones isn't really an option as col regs require me to use all available means to avoid a collision. I'd intended to get familiar with it in good vis first and hopefully that will help me when I do get caught out in poor viz

@matt1 As soon as you shut your eyes singlehanded, you've technically fallen foul on the Colregs anyway, so I'd be looking to mitigate any negligence on my part should an incident rear it's head, by making sure that all available kit is at least switched on and aiding my navigation .

If you have radar, it should be used, but I can't recall the Colregs stipulating the level of expertise that an operator should possess. Having nothing more than an ability to set a guard zone and alarm is undoubtedly more effective than leaving the radar switched off altogether.

It's a tricky one. I've done several channel crossings with inexperienced crew (namely my wife), and resting time is always a nervous proposition for me. My wife, for example, does not understand the Colregs, she's not great at ascertaining distances, or even how to effectively change course on her own under sail. No criticism of her, but she leaves me to that stuff and that's how I keep her sailing. There's not much in the English Channel that doesn't transmit on AIS, so I've devoted my energy to teaching her what CPA and TCPA mean and how to read them from the plotter. But it doesn't stop me from whacking every alarm to the highest level if I'm going to shut my eyes for longer than ten minutes. If I presented her with a radar display I think she'd burst into tears!

Where I have found the radar to be particularly useful is when approaching fishing grounds in poor vis. A lot of the inshore guys don't care for AIS full stop.