Quiet, innit? Decline in boating?Parallels/extention to manufacturing decline?

[Seajet]

But I think that Seajets attitude is part of the issue for new people coming to sailing. (Not him personally you understand)

There are a large group of established sailors who did it the Seajet way, start small in 1960's / 1970's boats. For whatever reason some stayed there.

Now when a new victim starts saying they have £50k to spend on boat for family or as couple, what is the standard response? Get a £2k boat and learn, don't waste your money. If they take the advice will it meet SWMBO's needs and if they don't there will always be someone saying my £2k boat built by Noah proves that I'm a better sailor than you as you don't understand it.

This applies to most technical sports, the whole "All the gear, No idea" attitude.

Link that to the perception of older members of clubs by new younger recruits (who expect to deal with an organisation on the basis of we pay you money, you provide us service) and it makes a less attractive proposition than many other less traditional activities.

I've just revisited this forum after an evening having a llife.

jAC, for possible interest I didn't 'start small in the 70's and stay there ',

A, I've had other larger boats and found they have less to offer not more,

B, I have continually updated my boat which includes the interior as well as equipment; she's very different to an original 1977 boat.

C, I've sailed plenty of larger boats to be able to judge, I did my YMoffshore in a Gib Sea 42 which I found basic and lacking in comfort !

As for the comment about chartering boats owned by sailing clubs, well that's one approach but it only fills a small portion of the requirements.

I and people I know get a great deal of pleasure working on my boat so i consequently know every inch, handy in emergencies as well as pride of ownership.

It's sadly true that people nowadays seem unwilling to fit out kit boats, which might be another part answer to the finacially driven part of the decline.

I regularly help people I have befriended get boats and join our / a club, but it's frightening how little savvy some have when it comes to owning a boat rather than just sailing one; things like sorting moorings, hoisting ashore, that sort of thing.

This is where a handy sized boat and a friendly club is a far better option than a large thing dependent on paid yards and a marina with costs and effort which can only put people off before they start.

 

[robertj]

The problem with honing this discussion into a clear picture is that there are so many factors and a great deal of subjectivity!

My own view is that its largely down to economic and changing cultural factors, plus the fact that people have increasingly competing demands on their time. I certainly do! But the bottom line is that there is significantly less job-security and the cost of housing as a proportion of incomes is totally skewed. When everything was booming, this didn't matter. Now it does.




Point clearly made. But just wait until you start a family!




Good point. My own experience of a sizable south coast club (with a very down-to-earth membership) has only been very positive. Without it, my sailing - and its related social life - would have been considerably poorer.




Completely agree. If the 'size' of sailing fell by 25%, that would still leave a huge number of boats and sailors all round the country, and market forces will adjust the cost to us accordingly.




Subjective. You must have a strong shoulder to carry so many chips.




You sound like my dad! Completely agree with you though.[/


Sorry I'm basically saying what I should have seen here. Yours better can I add.

 

[maby]

I've just revisited this forum after an evening having a llife.

jAC, for possible interest I didn't 'start small in the 70's and stay there ',

A, I've had other larger boats and found they have less to offer not more,

B, I have continually updated my boat which includes the interior as well as equipment; she's very different to an original 1977 boat.

C, I've sailed plenty of larger boats to be able to judge, I did my YMoffshore in a Gib Sea 42 which I found basic and lacking in comfort !

As for the comment about chartering boats owned by sailing clubs, well that's one approach but it only fills a small portion of the requirements.

I and people I know get a great deal of pleasure working on my boat so i consequently know every inch, handy in emergencies as well as pride of ownership.

It's sadly true that people nowadays seem unwilling to fit out kit boats, which might be another part answer to the finacially driven part of the decline.

I regularly help people I have befriended get boats and join our / a club, but it's frightening how little savvy some have when it comes to owning a boat rather than just sailing one; things like sorting moorings, hoisting ashore, that sort of thing.

This is where a handy sized boat and a friendly club is a far better option than a large thing dependent on paid yards and a marina with costs and effort which can only put people off before they start.

and I, at least, will applaud you for all of that - just ask that you recognise that there are many reasons for owning a boat and your view only represents that of a relatively small proportion of the boating community. In our marina there are liveaboards for whom the boat is their home - they want rather large boats and they want comfort. There are also fishermen - actually quite a lot of them - as far as they are concerned, the boat is a tool, nothing more - they want a boat that requires a minimum of effort and is as reliable as possible.

 

[Daydream believer]

The funny thing is... The value of manufacturing in the uk has increased steadily since 1945... Even as its value as a percentage of GDP has fallen and the percentage of people employed has fallen.

There is a perception that manufacturing has been steadily in decline in the uk since the war... But it simply is not true.. It has simply become smaller as a percentage of our overall eceonomy... Something quite normal in western economies as they have matured and as productivity in manufacturing has improved.

The historical peak in uk manufacturing In terms of value and productivity was in 2007.. Just before the crash.

So, please, can we stop banging on about the uk not manufactureing anything, or how we are in terminal decline??

It's simply NOT true.

Absolutely ,+1

 

[Lakesailor]

Sun Headline........

Baby Boomers' Boating Bonanza Becalmed​

 

[FullCircle]

Having enjoyed this thread I will say this.
Boating is still alive and kicking where I am . Britain's 168th most expensive 'marina' (collection of non matching planks down the middle of a creek).

I have one of the largest boats there, certainly the newest. It doen't matter - it's a working yard, and boats ebb and flow as sellers and buyers come and go. Watch the sparking evangelism of a new owner as he/she takes the keys to the boat in the yard, working on it to get ready for a season. The interaction with all in the yard while I am working/borrowing/lending/chatting/tea drinking is a real satisfying joy. It's prbably better than a YC.
I also belong to a sailing association that owns some moorings, looks after the river and its environs, have a huge diversity of experience and talented sailors and have a fantastic community in winter yard work.

We have a long term plan to take our inappropriate craft around the world, and it is my sailing and our holiday home. I'm thinking of applying for a post code.

Still plenty of scope for saving cash if needs be, or that is what you want. I pay around £2k for my yearly priveleged walkway/tie off point, but I could have a beautiful mooring for £300 a year.

Personally, I am pleased when the pressure is off moorings and anchorages, it keeps the prices reasonable, and the experience unspoilt.

 

[davidej]

Sailed the length of the River Blackwater yesterday.

An amazing number of moorings are empty and very few other boats out.

I blame the weather as much as the recession

 

[Otter]

Sailed the length of the River Blackwater yesterday.

An amazing number of moorings are empty and very few other boats out.

I blame the weather as much as the recession

It's great isn't it, you can pick up a mooring anywhere these days for a quiet night. Anchoring is great but the small swing of a mooring means you're often closer to a quiet shore for a bit of a walk. Agree with FC, few YC's can match the camaraderie of an east Coast boatyard. It worries me though that there are vacancies in the marina at Granary where we're berthed.

 

[Babylon]

It worries me though that there are vacancies in the marina at Granary where we're berthed.

I simply don't understand your worry. If the whole shooting-match is less crowded then so much the better!

And if people are put off by the weather, then they can sell their boats, stay at home, watch TV, and go on holiday to a Greek island.

 

[FullCircle]

It's great isn't it, you can pick up a mooring anywhere these days for a quiet night. Anchoring is great but the small swing of a mooring means you're often closer to a quiet shore for a bit of a walk. Agree with FC, few YC's can match the camaraderie of an east Coast boatyard. It worries me though that there are vacancies in the marina at Granary where we're berthed.

Bridgemarsh are at just over 90% - but have only increased charges by £1/ft in the last 4 years. I note from other threads that marinas seem to be charging even more due to less customers turning up, particularly Ramsgate and St Kats. Daft, and people will stay away in droves.

 

[maby]

Bridgemarsh are at just over 90% - but have only increased charges by £1/ft in the last 4 years. I note from other threads that marinas seem to be charging even more due to less customers turning up, particularly Ramsgate and St Kats. Daft, and people will stay away in droves.

I guess that many marinas have some significant fixed costs - St. Kats is in the centre of London in a prime location - when the number of customers drops, they either charge more or go bust. I note that Chatham MDL is not only full - it's just added another line of pontoons increasing capacity by 20%

 

[TopDonkey]

I work in Lyme Regis harbourmasters office now, and we've gone from having 110 people on the waiting list at the beginning of the year for a mooring in the harbour, to having 4 free moorings available this year on a first come first served basis now, although you have to be a dorset taxpayer to be elegible for a mooring down here, Its unheard of to have spare moorings in Lyme Regis !.

I've been down in the harbour moving boats around and have managed to create space for 2 more boats too, but we're now wondering if these extra spaces will get taken this year.

Things are certainly slowing down for us here, plenty of people wandering around, but not many spending money in the town anymore

 

[Tranona]

For gods sake lets have all the country growing all our grand children might then have a better future

Sorry - very confused thinking here. You really do need to look at history to understand how economies develop and change. The model you propose of forcing people to use existing ports when all the developments have been away from that model just will not work. Think canals, think the railway structure, think the changing location of major ports and you will see that it is influenced by international trade and changes in technology. So ports like Glasgow Liverpool London and Bristol decline because the trade with the empire declined, replaced by Harwich, Felixstowe, Tilbury etc reflecting the growth of movement of goods fro Europe. Railways declined because they were fixed to industries and populations that changed or declined. Canals declined because of the development of railways and roads and so on.

Growth will come out of responding to new opportunities, technologies and trading relationships, not recreating some pastiche image of the past. Thought Danny Boyle made all that clear in the Olympics opening ceremony!

 

[fergie_mac66]

Sorry - very confused thinking here. You really do need to look at history to understand how economies develop and change. The model you propose of forcing people to use existing ports when all the developments have been away from that model just will not work. Think canals, think the railway structure, think the changing location of major ports and you will see that it is influenced by international trade and changes in technology. So ports like Glasgow Liverpool London and Bristol decline because the trade with the empire declined, replaced by Harwich, Felixstowe, Tilbury etc reflecting the growth of movement of goods fro Europe. Railways declined because they were fixed to industries and populations that changed or declined. Canals declined because of the development of railways and roads and so on.

Growth will come out of responding to new opportunities, technologies and trading relationships, not recreating some pastiche image of the past. Thought Danny Boyle made all that clear in the Olympics opening ceremony!

I do understand what you say but takef or example:- Grimsby, on the end of the M62 A couple of fast cat ferrys 40 knots plus capable of taking say 200.. 500 containers, A couple of container cranes in the old docks they barely need building . Quick transport to and from Felixtow,Taking perhaps what 1..2 thousand containers a day to the big ships, That is easy transport infrastucture with large low priced brown field sites around and a lot of jobless in the major surrouning area.... also Leeds an hr drive from the terminal It would prove a big cheap attraction to new modern exporting businesses, not old style mass labour dependent manufacturing , take a huge weight of the central routes down to Felixstow , The figures have to work. edit:must be huge carbon fuel savings and with container ships of 18000 containers appearing how many lorries can the M25 take Edit : the Humber Is a major river Is almost unused and is ripe for development

 

[fergie_mac66]

Growth will come out of responding to new opportunities, technologies and trading relationships, not recreating some pastiche image of the past. Thought Danny Boyle made all that clear in the Olympics opening ceremony!

What ever new opportunities, Technologies trading relationships , are coming our way , businesses will need to export them and need floor space .Moving percentage points between banks and balance sheets aint going to dig us (the country ) out of the hole.

That's not forgetting Nimby's dont want more building in the south east

 

[prv]

A couple of fast cat ferrys 40 knots plus capable of taking say 200.. 500 containers,

How much fuel are those going to use, then?

Conventional small "feeder" container ships you may have a point, but high speed passenger ferry technology is a nonsense for this use.

Pete

 

[Kukri]

I do understand what you say but takef or example:- Grimsby, on the end of the M62 A couple of fast cat ferrys 40 knots plus capable of taking say 200.. 500 containers, A couple of container cranes in the old docks they barely need building . Quick transport to and from Felixtow,Taking perhaps what 1..2 thousand containers a day to the big ships, That is easy transport infrastucture with large low priced brown field sites around and a lot of jobless in the major surrouning area.... also Leeds an hr drive from the terminal It would prove a big cheap attraction to new modern exporting businesses, not old style mass labour dependent manufacturing , take a huge weight of the central routes down to Felixstow , The figures have to work. edit:must be huge carbon fuel savings and with container ships of 18000 containers appearing how many lorries can the M25 take Edit : the Humber Is a major river Is almost unused and is ripe for development

I am in the business; we have looked again and again at using feeder ships from Felixstowe, where our mainline ships call, to the Humber and points further north, but it doesn't compute by the time we have factored in the extra handling and port dues. We do use rail as much as we can, and in fact the Port of Felixtstowe have invested in upgrading the rail line both from Ipswich and the "F2N" (Felixstowe to Nuneaton) scheme.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ent_data/file/2642/a14-challenge-response.pdf

 

[Kukri]

How much fuel are those going to use, then?

Conventional small "feeder" container ships you may have a point, but high speed passenger ferry technology is a nonsense for this use.

Pete

A few years ago the Italian government, concerned about trucks clogging the autostrada, actually built four big ro-ros to run North South between, iirc, Naples and Genoa, but it didn't change the world.

 

[Garold]

It's quieter out on the water. The slide seems to have taken place over a number of years but it's now enough to be noticed by most of us.

But maybe it's just the cyclical nature of everything, including leisure pastimes.

I remember cycling becoming less popular, then all of a sudden growing again over the last few years. On Sunday mornings, we now see huge numbers of cyclists.

And when I used to play golf there seemed to be a new course opening every month with some requirement to pay a ridiculous joining fee. Then all of a sudden the golf boom ended, and many of the new courses were empty, and the fees seemed to stop rising as course owners realised that there was no longer a line of new punters who would pay annually increasing fees.

And now it seems to be the turn of boating; yachties and moboers. For differing reasons, the endless stream of customers willing to pay more and more has evaporated.

It may be fuel costs, it may be the cost of running a boat, it may be berthing fees, it could be that people are cutting back on dicretionary spending etc etc but whatever the reason, the numbers have diminished.

And it may be a while till younger generations return to bolster the diminishing boating population. I guess the yacht clubs have a big challenge on their hands to engage the attention of the Playstation generation youngsters.

Cheers

Garold

 

[Kukri]

Is this, in fact, a bad thing?