Quiet, innit? Decline in boating?Parallels/extention to manufacturing decline?

I think there are a number of issues that stop young people going into boating. People, in general, seem to have got a lot more risk adverse and only some of this, I think, is justified. We are too used to hearing, often false, stories about H&S disasters and the financial implications of same. There is a lot less of a gung ho attitude to things and this creates a barrier to taking part. Also, boat owners tend to be very protective of their boats and can seem stand-offish to the uninitiated. Certainly finance is an issue, the next generation does not have the access to relative wealth that the previous had. Convenience plays a part too. With the internet we are used to finding out what we want to know and booking fun times when it suits us. Boating seems to be less keyed in to this and with weather playing a big part and it's organisational complexity, tides etc, some people will try something easier to arrange.

I have been boating all my life because my grandparents had a boat and friends also took us out. My first sailing boat was a mirror dingy but I never got into the club thing. We then got a motor boat (RIB) to explore local islands, fish and dive. I have always been fascinated by the sea and enjoy being in it, on it or round it. I now have a 28' wooden sail boat with room for 4 cramped peeps. It requires a lot of work and quite significant financial investment. It is sometimes hard to find the time to dedicate not only to sailing but to the maintainance too. Still, I wouldn't give it up for the world, it is too much fun and with just the right amount of adrenaline thrown in.
 
Tomahawk said:
On another aspect, take a look at any yacht club bar..... Most, if not all the drinkers will be over fifty..
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Well, I've been sailing as long as I can remember, switching from dinghies to (UK chartered) yachts at about 19. But I don't remember ever drinking in a yacht club bar in connection with my sailing, except for the one occasion when we stopped in Plymouth and my mate's grandfather invited us for a drink and a meal at his. Whether rightly or wrongly, yacht clubs always projected a rather unwelcoming, members-only, no-scruffy-teenagers image. We always went to the pub instead.

Pete
 
Pointless looking backwards to the world where people built their own boats, converted lifeboats, crammed 4 people into a 22 footer etc. The world has changed. In that world other people were building Austin 7 specials and tuning A35s etc and living in houses that had a gas range and if you were lucky electricity in every room to run your gramaphone and your new Rolls twin tub washing machine. Motorcycles and sidecars were still common, but the package holiday by plane was unheard of for ordinary people.

The choices open to young people and families now are very different, so they make different choices about how they spend their leisure time and money. Why spend months building a boat when there is an enormous choice of ready to go boats at a fraction of new building cost. People who build boats now do so because they enjoy building boats, not because they want to go sailing. Plenty of opportunities for young people to get into sailing as a sport if they want to - along with plenty of opportunities to do all sorts of other things.

Of course demands are going to change, reflecting changes in aspirations and opportunities, just as they have changed in our own lifetimes. When I built my first boat in the 1960s I never dreamed that I would one day have a 37 footer in the Med. Just a reflection on how much opportunity there has been in the last 40 years or so for many.

There is nothing intrinsically good or bad about following a particular way of developing a hobby. Just because the start small and build up way was common in the past, does not mean that it is the only, or even the best way. The changing demographic together with wider opportunities means people will make different choices. One factor often overlooked is the longer period young people spend in a non earning state, with nearly 50% still in education up to the age of 22, by which time I was married, with one child and a mortgage. The burden of student debt and difficulty of getting into the housing market means many more people are in their 30's before they are in a position to consider significant expenditure on such things a boats.

So, while it is easy to try and lay blame on specific things like the RCD, these are not the cause of the changes, they are far more deep seated and a reflection of general changes in our society.
 
The decline in yachting is mirrored in my other previous sport of caving. I stopped caving about 25 years ago but I notice from the forums there seem to be fewer out caving than there used to be and many of the active cavers are ones I used to cave with! It can't be economics with caving as it's a relatively cheap sport. I put it down to people being less willing to endure cold and discomfort and the rise of computer gaming and the internet. There are economic factors at work with boating for sure, some of the entries for once busy yacht races are pitiful. There is a social element too, men are expected to be homemakers and baby carers these days and wives will much more readily walk away with a decent divorce settlement.
 
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Seajet said:
This is quite a significant thread...

For a start, my 22' has wider, longer more comfy berths than the 30' I had !

I've had 4 adults aboard for weekends and 3 adults on for 3 week cruises around the Channel Isles & West Country, and no homicides yet.

She's seaworthy and fast, comfy, has all the electronics inc radar and handles better than any 35footer; at places like the Folly I can raise the keel and go on the Western side of the pontoons, so no hassle rafting.

If I pick up a lobster pot around the prop I can simply lift the engine in the well and apply a breadknife, if there are engine problems I can take it home to fix; I get the mast up and down with one friend.
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Seajet, I mean this honestly and without my usual sarcasm, It's great to have you back. When we heard you were ill and unable to post we missed hearing of the virtues of an Anderson - the benchmark of all that's good in yachting, both speed and extraordinary levels of comfort - though sadly lacking in sidedecks but who needs them I say. In many ways you're right, an Anderson 22 should be the prerequisite purchase for anyone taking up yachting and only if they have more than 7 children should they even consider something bigger. I wish I had one, honestly I do, it would be just right for the Deben and any loss of comfort or enjoyment on the part of the three children, wife, dog and me on our annual 6 week summer cruise, would be balanced by the knowing and admiring looks from others and we sailed by, 10 degrees from the wind, slicing through the North Sea like a knife through warm Swarfega.
 
Its an interesting debate and I think that I fall into the 'target category' of young(ish) people that the boating industry needs/wants to attract. I'm not sure whether my thoughts/experiences are typical or not, but here goes....

I've always had a fascination with boats and the sea, although the first time I ever went to the broads (as a 'grown up') was only 2007, we hired a cruiser and got really lucky with the weather (it was October half term and we were wearing t-shirts)! That got me thinking about getting more into boating and I started going to the boat show.

My interest remained, but I decided I was going to take on Flying as my hobby instead (for anyone that's never tried it, definitely give it a go, those on this forum may appreciate gliding especially), however my then girlfriend (now fiancée!!) got too scared every time I went up that I was going to crash (bear in mind I was with an instructor, so I decided she would be too paranoid as and when I went solo, also my vision of ferrying us across Europe in a small plane was slightly shattered)!

I did the RYA Powerboat Level 1&2 the next summer as an alternative and then purchase a small RIB with 2 others, in our 2 years of ownership we have learnt a lot and had a fairly good time, but we have outgrown the RIB and also the Tidal Thames speed limits made our quick after work trips all but impossible, so that will be up for sale fairly soon (we are cleaning it up at the mo, then will go out a few times before attempting to sell).

At the end of that summer a group of us did a comp crew course on a 38 foot cat in the med, that got me hooked and my flatmate, having just got made redundant as we got back decided to use his time wisely and did a fast track Dayskipper course (he hadn't come on the trip with us)!

We thought about joining a 'yacht' club and went along to a few meetings at one place, but we felt the attitude (I've mentioned on previous posts on this forum) wasn't overly pleasant (not to say everyone wasn't nice, some were, with the majority just indifferent and the odd one in particular offputting), so we gave up on that idea.

I went back to the Med and did a day skipper course, before coming back here and doing a tidal conversion. My fiancée came along on both, but essentially decided she had no interest in being out in the cold, with an unappealing grey backdrop (as opposed to the Med)!

Last year I semi-seriously began thinking about buying something larger, I reasoned diesel/petrol was too expensive and I wanted something that could travel further than a 5m RIB, so sailing boats were the only option. However (and this may be a key issue for people today) time being incredibly valuable and at least a perception of less of it being available (combined with a naturally competitive streak) made me look towards modern racer/cruisers that could get around a bit quicker. Now of course this was a slightly naïve approach and once I've since abandoned, not just because I've come to the conclusion that a racer capable of a few more knots isn't necessarily going to get me home in time to catch The Aviva Premiership highlights...but also because of the recession. I ended up being made redundant from a fairly well paid banking job, and whilst I have a new job now and financially am comfortable it made me realise I don't really want to throw money at a boat right now!

The other week, as some of you may have seen, we went on a skippered charter with Stormforce, over the bank holiday weekend and even with a few sailing sceptics everyone had a good time. So much so infact that some of us are already planning another trip!

So what was the point of that lengthily post....

Well, what I was trying to say is that its not a lack of interest that's stopping people from sailing, its many other factors! Time and cost being the key ones, but the poor weather being a massive issue to. With cheap flights to the Med, why not charter there for a weekend rather than here? The other issue is that its not cheap to get to the coast anymore, 10 years ago getting to Brighton by train wasn't a big deal, but prices have risen massively above inflation and so keeping a boat on the coast whilst living in London simply is less viable than it was. I've seen a few boatshare schemes, but they seem to be a compromise that don't really offer the full flexibility nor offer the full cost saving, so don't massively appeal. So whilst none of these issues may be new as such, they are definitely key barriers, stopping people from sailing at the mo.

Personally, my plan is to continue chartering for now, probably not as frequently as I would like, but with the time available, it just doesn't feel worthwhile for me to set aside the money to get a sailing boat. Yet if I could live on the coast I suspect I would be much more inclined to get a boat, but coastal property prices (and a lack of jobs in my sector) make that an impossibility!

As for what can be done about it....

That's another tricky question, I think yacht clubs (if they want to grow that is) need to be more appealing to new members and perhaps a bit less formal/rigid! As for time/money that's an impossible issue, we don't have a lot of either at the mo and things aren't going to get cheaper! Personally (other than dinghys) the smallest boat I've sailed on is a 34 footer and personally I wouldn't feel massively comfortable on anything smaller when offshore, but then maybe if I'd started out on something smaller I may feel differently, but I guess for whatever reason others must think along similar lines as manufacturers seem to focus on the 30ft+ size, which of course puts up the startup costs!

That was a bit babbling and not really very useful, but its quiet at work, so I thought I'd throw in a contribution!
 
Lazy Kipper said:
Seajet, I mean this honestly and without my usual sarcasm, It's great to have you back. When we heard you were ill and unable to post we missed hearing of the virtues of an Anderson - the benchmark of all that's good in yachting, both speed and extraordinary levels of comfort - though sadly lacking in sidedecks but who needs them I say. In many ways you're right, an Anderson 22 should be the prerequisite purchase for anyone taking up yachting and only if they have more than 7 children should they even consider something bigger. I wish I had one, honestly i do, it would be just right for the Deben and and loss of comfort or enjoyment on the part of the three children, wife, dog and me on our annual 6 week summer cruise, would be balanced by the knowing and admiring looks from others and we sailed by, 10 degrees from the wind, slicing through the North Sea like a knife through warm Swarfega.
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Ah but just wait until you get that rig all tuned-up & as tight as a nuns nasty, cleaving through the fleet down the Wallet for a swift one up the Butt.
Even Kwaka didnt get to have a swift one up the Butt
 
Thanks for all the positive comments about the Anderson 22, I shall never tire of having words put in my mouth; just as well, as I didn't make any claims here particularly for the Anderson, more for any decent boat which would nowadays be called small...

Have a look at LustyD's Vivacity on his blog, a super boat.

I started cruiser sailing with a schoolchum when we were 16-17 and was skippering across the Channel by 18; this is by no means unusual at my club, there were several groups of youngsters who got together to buy / operate small cruisers, as well as racing dinghies.

As for Solent prices, if one does it right - especially with a boat which can go on a half tide mooring, prices can be surprisingly reasonable.

Not many people require more than 4 berths, and eating ashore even for breakfasts is a lot easier nowadays so the Vesta meal is consigned to well deserved oblivion; we have a good gimballed 2 burner & grill when required.

When I compiled the A22 website and asked owners for comments, one replied that owners of large racing boats are always keen to sail with him because of the 'feel' on the tiller, possibly her best feature but it applies to some degree on a lot of smaller boats.

If you're carting around a fridge, dishwasher and 35' of joinery with wheel steering you ain't gonna get such a pleasurable helming or indeed crewing experience, which is what I thought it's meant to be about.

I am certainly no hair shirt type and like my comforts...
 
Actually you raise such an important point!

Expectations are everything...my guess is that 50 years ago a boat was impressive. Now, with social media its much easier to see what else is out there and just having a boat isn't enough, if it doesn't have a helipad then there's that element of disappointment (I exaggerate, but the point remains valid) ;-), peoples expectations are massively different.

What seasoned sailors often forget is that for social sailors the accommodation is as (if not more) important than the actual sailing! I saw on a training website once a statement saying a boat is not a hotel...but I really think that misses a key point...for a decent chunk of people that's exactly what it is and if the accommodation is not up to scratch the appeal quickly disappears!
 
Whilst I presume that's slightly tongue in cheek, the thread was about why numbers appear to be dropping, I'm pretty sure that expectations of newcomers being higher than in the past is a key part of this. For some simply sailing is great, for others, the whole package is more important and that includes the accommodation, heads etc. (the lack of advances in marine heads is one area that amazes me to be fair)!!
 
vjmehra,

yes I'm glad you spotted my tongue in cheek...

However another tangent this thread has taken is, why are people bothering with the expense and hassle of daftly large boats, the ' boat show image ' does not exactly inform newcomers that they don't need a second mortgage to have fun in safety and dare I say probably more comfort than you remember on 1970's small boats !
 
A different point of view, maybe. After forty years of avoiding big posh yot clubs with "Royal.." in their title and blue ensigns, I joined one last year.

Should have done so long ago. Nice people, both my children enjoy spending a day there, and in fact it is a great deal more friendly than the small club that I belonged to before.
 
Seajet said:
vjmehra,

yes I'm glad you spotted my tongue in cheek...

However another tangent this thread has taken is, why are people bothering with the expense and hassle of daftly large boats, the ' boat show image ' does not exactly inform newcomers that they don't need a second mortgage to have fun in safety and dare I say probably more comfort than you remember on 1970's small boats !
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Well, people own boats for a range of reasons. Our first boat was 19 foot and cost £250 off eBay. We had fun in that, but decided we needed more space and comfort, so we splashed out £20k on a relatively new 27 footer. We had even more fun in that and would quite possible still be sailing it if all we were looking for was weekend sailing fun. But around the same time we began thinking about buying a holiday home, one thing led to another and we considered combining the two. Our current boat cost about the same as a studio flat in one of the new blocks facing onto the river, it has a similar amount of space, but we can cast off and take it with us all over Europe (actually, all over the world - always assuming that we could give up work). If you look at it from the point of view of a weekend sailor, it is "daftly large" and "insanely expensive" - but that is not the way to look at it. A couple of hundred grand is a lot of money to spend on a boat, but plenty of people lash out those sorts of sums on a holiday home - our boat is our holiday home.
 
Minn said:
A different point of view, maybe. After forty years of avoiding big posh yot clubs with "Royal.." in their title and blue ensigns, I joined one last year.

Should have done so long ago. Nice people, both my children enjoy spending a day there, and in fact it is a great deal more friendly than the small club that I belonged to before.
Click to expand...

Does it have a bright new clubhouse
 
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