PSP - Fairlines 'Closed Door' policy - Very upset!

[ari]

When I first read this I thought you were just out to wind something up but let me set the record straight. Firstly I did walk straight onto a sunseeker, however many other boats had people abourd and on many occasions was asked if we minded just waiting until the people inboard had left - no problem there. With the fairline stand what upset me is that I was advised 'why not have a cup of tea and come back later' actually the boat we wished to see had bo one inboard at all! This isn't a knocking of the dealers and nor is it a 'Do you know who I am' as that has already been answered, no you don't and nor did they and neither did they know who most of the other 8000 or so of Saturday's visitors were and that is why no one should ever be prejudged in any sales situation

If I was offered the chance for an appointment I would have accepted that. We visited 4 times, once in the morning when they had a group presentation, the second time I was advised that our local broker was busy but could I come back later (we didn't ask for him specifically) the third time go and have a cup of tea, the last time at 6.15 sorry too late so we went and chatted with Broom opposite instead!

Oddly reading this thread I wasn't the only one who felt this

For the record I think Fairline have a fantastic product, the concern was over their policy at the show as we had no problems on any other stand and as I said earlier, were invited, whilst viewing one boat on the sunseeker stand, to view stuff that was wildly out of our budget, but they were very much working on the principal of 'who knows where your boating will go in the future

Good luck with your attempt to start a row on the forum Your views are your views and you have a right to view them, but, especially as we have had such super service from a Faitline dealer, as mentioned, in the past, this is not and never has been a dig at the brand only a criticism of the way they conducted themselves at the show. For the record, no one was rude or inconsiderate, just unaccomodating and off putting!

Not an attempt to start a row or wind you up, and apologies if it came across that way.

But I do feel that, on the busiest day of the show, nine straight days in, on one of the most popular brands, one has to be a little realistic.

I agree that ideally they should have offered you an appointment, and it's poor form that they didn't (but nine days in and with the end of the misery that it must be for the "gate girls" maybe they're allowed a little human error). But equally you could have asked (shouldn't have to I know, but if there was a specific boat I wanted to see I think I would have).

Some on here have stated that they find the barriers at Fairline intimidating, and I can understand that. Well maybe that's deliberate. I can't imagine that many genuine six and seven figure buyers are going to shy away so if the "tyre kickers" do, maybe that works for them. I also find it very hard to believe that they're second guessing who's serious and who isn't based on appearance, because that's impossible.

Ultimately there are never going to be enough boats or staff on the big stands to cope. I guess exhibitors have to manage this the best way they can. And bear in mind that their version of "managing" (rightly or wrongly) is to get as many genuinely potential customers on their boats and for as long as possible.

I should point out perhaps that I have no affinity with Fairline, either professionally or as a customer (I wish!) But I can certainly see the difficulty in managing expectations at a boat show.

 

[oceanfroggie]

By the way. Can you really tell? I've sold high value goods in the past and often found those looking the most affluentto be the biggest tyres kickers!

Yes, but talented sales folk can see beyond "looks" and discern in seconds where "most" punters minds are at.

 

[Reds]

We have dealt with Fairline in Mallorca a few times and they have always been friendly and approachable and we have never had problems seeing boats at shows , but talk about prejudging - one of their older directors told me a few years ago that he didn't bother replying to e mails if they were from a hotmail account ............. on that basis I never emailed him!

 

[Hurricane]

Some on here have stated that they find the barriers at Fairline intimidating, and I can understand that. Well maybe that's deliberate. I can't imagine that many genuine six and seven figure buyers are going to shy away so if the "tyre kickers" do, maybe that works for them. I also find it very hard to believe that they're second guessing who's serious and who isn't based on appearance, because that's impossible.

As someone who DID buy from SIBS a few years ago, in our case the "gate keeping" approach didnt work for Fairline. At the time, Fairline only had the SQ66 to meet our requirements but I remember distinctly finding it so much more inconvenient looking over their boats rather than Sunseeker and eventually Princess who both have an open policy. I dont like "the hard sale" - I prefer to browse for myself and ask a salesman when I'm ready. OK - so its a balance between leaving a stand unmanned and the heavy sales push but I do think Fairline have go it wrong.

Also as a current Princess owner, I didnt visit the Fairline stand this year - couldnt be bothered with the hassle of the gate. However I did get on board the new Manhattan 53 - because it was easy. Consequently, I have no idea what Fairline were offering this year.

Maybe I will change boats and buy another new one sometime - who knows - I certainly dont.

 

[jfm]

This is a tricky topic and it's hard to comment on OP's specific situation without being a witness to it. I made 2 brief visits to SIBS and so far as i could see anyone who went up and gave their details was either allowed on or asked nicely to come back later if their requested boat was choc-a-bloc. The ladies on the reception desk are charming and pretty experienced at that job (generally the ladies on Fairline's stand are regulars at all Fairline's boat show stands, not "temps", and having chatted to them at several shows over recent years I would say they're all very nice and charming).

I got much more of an inside view at LIBS 2011 when my boat was on display. Fairline's policy was to admit everyone who wanted see it, crowd control permitting. That meant that on many days you could see it without an appointment, and on a few occasions (the last weekend iirc, which was busy) you had to make an appointment. They did ask me at the start if I minded, and I said I was fine with a fairly wide open door policy

But they do have a "front desk" aspect to their stand and I must say I think that makes sense. Like it or not, when you have more demand than supply (of time slots i mean) you have to do something. And even if you don't, some choose to gather data and do a bit of screening. I have no idea of Fairline's science behind the front desk but I reckon it filters out those who are not assertive enough just to ask a nice lady if they can have a look, and I would guess there is a slight correlation there with folks who have the £££ to buy the product. This is quite smart: don't filter out on how people dress (which would be dumb in 2011) but do filter out on behaviour. Just imho. I doubt you can walk into the Bentley showroom in Berkeley Square and sit in a car without an essentially similar pre-screen. I did a couple of days at Cannes earlier this month and went (as a cold caller) on board Sanlorenzo88, Absolute70, Sunreef114, CNM (chrisco and Bordeaux 60) and others, and in all cases there was similar prescreen chat at the stand.

The front desk does also filter out those who just happen not to like front desks, even though they are asserive and/or can afford the boat. That's just how it is, and Fairline have to take that pain along with the benefits of their front desk. I don't think there is a single format for a stand that suits all of the poeple all of the time

Overall i just cannot figure out why people get so concerned about all this. You meet forms of "screening" all the time in life, so just deal with it. Make a firm appointment and come back, or call the dealer beforehand, or do something to get on the boat. It isn't difficult. All the salesmen/women on Fairline's stand (I think know all of them) are nice people and very approachable. They were engaged for much time with actual buyers who signed up and bought boats at the show. I don't know the final tally but I expect it will be 20-25 boats (ranging from several T38s to, I believe, two squadron 78s). That takes some time: no-one in their right mind walks up and signs/pays deposit on a Sq78 after just 15mins of chat. So they cannot always give everyone attention all of the time, and you have to allow for that when asking to see a boat. But if you take all that context into account there really is nothing here to be concerned about and this is all a bit of fuss about nothing and people being a little bit oversensitive.

I visited a few other stands and found Princess and Sunseeker very welcoming too.

All imho

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

By the way. Can you really tell? I've sold high value goods in the past and often found those looking the most affluentto be the biggest tyres kickers!

No you can't and thats the point. Its often the people who are dressed up to the nines who can't afford the boat and those who look like scruffs who can. For all the talk about 'filtering' or 'qualifying' people, potential buyers don't turn up dressed in an easily identifiable uniform so everyone should be treated the same

 

[Imperial One]

No you can't and thats the point. Its often the people who are dressed up to the nines who can't afford the boat and those who look like scruffs who can. For all the talk about 'filtering' or 'qualifying' people, potential buyers don't turn up dressed in an easily identifiable uniform so everyone should be treated the same

Well said Mike, that is exactly why I have an open boat policy.
It works for me.
Of course, we are there to sell boats and to introduce boaters to something different but all are welcome to come aboard.
I always let people who say, "I cannot afford one of these but I would love to see over it" come on board and give them a brochure. You never know what happens down the road and besides whats wrong with a dream?
I even have them myself!

 

[rafiki_]

I missed SIBS this year, and therefore can only comment on LIBS in January, where I had no problem on the F/L or any other stands, and met JFM briefly on Match. The F/L front desk politely asked me of my interests, which I did not find challenging.

On previous SIBS visits, I have never had a problem viewing the boats I was interested in, but have found some presenters more intimidating than others.

Overall I agree that Sealine have been the most welcoming in the past.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Overall i just cannot figure out why people get so concerned about all this. You meet forms of "screening" all the time in life, so just deal with it. Make a firm appointment and come back, or call the dealer beforehand, or do something to get on the boat

I dont think its the exhibition visitors who should be concerned but Fairline themselves. This topic comes up year after year and it just serves to give the company an arrogant aloof image. Anyway, in my experience, it doesn't work some of the time. On a couple of occasions in the past, we have made firm appointments and returned to the Fairline stand at the appointed time only to find that 'our' salesman' wasn't available. In a market where there is very little difference between the various offerings of different manufacturers, that could be a dealbreaker for some people.

. . I don't know the final tally but I expect it will be 20-25 boats (ranging from several T38s to, I believe, two squadron 78s).

Mmm. That won't be from new sales leads generated at the show but from customers who dealers have arranged to sign up at the show

 

[John100156]

Every year there is a post regarding restricted access to the Fairline stand. It must make some people even more determined to take a look, or just to walk by to see if their restricted access policy is still in place. What they do see, even when just passing, is some stunning, quality boats - they say negative publicity can sometimes be good a thing!

I know I would not let the attititude of a salesperson or a restricted gate policy disuade me from buying a quality boat!

Last year I wanted to look at the Squadron, I arranged with a Fairline salesman in advance to view the boat. He knew very well I was not going to buy a new boat - but it was not an issue at all. He was with another client when I arrived; I was asked if I would like a coffee on-stand and when he was free, he would show me around the boat. He was thorough with his sales pitch and I enjoyed what he had to say, I then asked if SWMBO and me could look around the boat on our own, his response 'yes of course, if you need to ask any further questions please let one of the girls on the desk know and they will contact me'. I found this response far better than just being left to aimlessly walk around a boat.

I do think though that we have all been dupped - well done to Fairline marketing, you now have us all talking about you AGAIN.... many having moaned about the access control gate but then going on to state what an excellent product you're selling! Nice one....

 

[jfm]

I dont think its the exhibition visitors who should be concerned but Fairline themselves. This topic comes up year after year and it just serves to give the company an arrogant aloof image. Anyway, in my experience, it doesn't work some of the time. On a couple of occasions in the past, we have made firm appointments and returned to the Fairline stand at the appointed time only to find that 'our' salesman' wasn't available. In a market where there is very little difference between the various offerings of different manufacturers, that could be a dealbreaker for some people.

Hmm. The image is in the eye of the beholder and sure some agree with you and others wouldn't. Many nice things (Bentleys, Graff diamonds, etc) are a challenge to get close to when you walk into their showroom. Just let all that flow like water off your duck's back and keep marching towards the product (and, er, stop being wimps).

On the occasion your appointment was missed and "it didn't work", were you really (I mean really really really) close to actually buying a new boat or were you merely browsing? And on the subject of missed appointments give them a break: they are busy, and appointments with other customers overrun. If they say 2.30pm at a boat show it really means they will try but cannot be sure; it's not like a business meeting at 2.30pm. You gotta come down to the real world on this one and understand that these boat show appointments can never be anything other than "flexible" and that isn't a Fairline thing. i appreciate that can theoretically be a dealbreaker but hey let's drop the hype and consider how often it REALLY is a deal breaker. It wasn't with you, it wouldn't be with me for any brand not just FL (even though I am a serial new boat buyer) and it hardly ever is in real life. There is an awful lot of unrealistic commentary in this thread.

Another thing is that Fairline had much director+shareholder presence on the stand, including CEO on several of the days. He was personally showing customers over the larger boats (probably screened customers...) and that can be a dealmaker. When you're a serious potential 1-2% of a company's turnover you expect to be sought out and spoken to by the CEO. In my business we will move heaven and earth for someone who is 2% of our turnover, and I bet your business is the same Mike. I was offered and shown at length a boat that is 2% of Princess's turnover but I bet the CEO has no plans to talk to me about it

Mmm. That won't be from new sales leads generated at the show but from customers who dealers have arranged to sign up at the show

That is true of some mike but certainly not all. You'd be surprised mike about how spontaneous some of the purchases are/were, including one of the Sq78s.

 

[rafiki_]

JFM, I agree on Sen Mgr interraction with customers. In my business I regularly meet key and smaller clients, and I know that the effort is appreciated.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

On the occasion your appointment was missed and "it didn't work", were you really (I mean really really really) close to actually buying a new boat or were you merely browsing? And on the subject of missed appointments give them a break: they are busy, and appointments with other customers overrun. If they say 2.30pm at a boat show it really means they will try but cannot be sure; it's not like a business meeting at 2.30pm. You gotta come down to the real world on this one and understand that these boat show appointments can never be anything other than "flexible" and that isn't a Fairline thing. i appreciate that can theoretically be a dealbreaker but hey let's drop the hype and consider how often it REALLY is a deal breaker. It wasn't with you, it wouldn't be with me for any brand not just FL (even though I am a serial new boat buyer) and it hardly ever is in real life. There is an awful lot of unrealistic commentary in this thread.

I've probably spent a lot more time standing at exhibition stands trying to sell high value capital equipment than you have and 2.30 means 2.30, not 2.45 or go and have a coffee and come back later. The point is not whether I was a potential new boat buyer or not at the time but that Fairline didn't know whether I was or not when we were turned away. In my experience, business deals do sometimes turn on these small details. I have a customer who I first met an exhibition many years ago who has bought millions of quids worth of equipment from us since then. He told me once that he started buying from us because I was the only person he found on any stand that would talk to him!

Another thing is that Fairline had much director+shareholder presence on the stand, including CEO on several of the days. He was personally showing customers over the larger boats (probably screened customers...) and that can be a dealmaker. When you're a serious potential 1-2% of a company's turnover you expect to be sought out and spoken to by the CEO. In my business we will move heaven and earth for someone who is 2% of our turnover, and I bet your business is the same Mike. I was offered and shown at length a boat that is 2% of Princess's turnover but I bet the CEO has no plans to talk to me about it

I should bloody well hope so. I expect the owners/directors of the manufacturers my company represents to be present at all major exhibitions to press the flesh with my key customers. Its all part of the sales effort and I wouldn't expect any less. In fact, if the high ups weren't there, I'd be asking why not!

 

[oceanfroggie]

Human nature is strange, a closed door may send some folk away, but more may want to get through it just because it's there!!!

 

[nedmin]

I dont care how bright you are you can never tell whose got the money,if you want to succed in business you treat everyone the same.In the early days when I was in business selling high value products I had a scruffy customer come in and I didnt bother too much with him,after he,d gone a customer said" do you know who that was",I replied no.It came about that he owned a large successful engineering company.Never made that mistake again,probably thats why I retired at 55!

 

[jfm]

I've probably spent a lot more time standing at exhibition stands trying to sell high value capital equipment than you have and 2.30 means 2.30, not 2.45

I don't want to thread drift but i could debate that with you. I too sell big ticket items, typically £0.5m for a small one and £6m for a big one. Most people I deal with know I'm a bit daft and vvv busy, and am quite likely to arrive at 2.45 or possibly the wrong day, or just dial in from the South of France. They know they can buy from Mr 2.30 Prompt and will get perhaps a pretty mechanical product. Or they can buy from Mr Haphazard 2.45/whatever and get something more creative. To have a rule "well I'm not dealing with him becuase I waited till 2.33 and he didn't arrive" is a policy you are free to follow, but at your own risk imho

I've probably spent a lot more time standing at exhibition stands trying to sell high value capital equipment than you have and 2.30 means 2.30, not 2.45 or go and have a coffee and come back later. The point is not whether I was a potential new boat buyer or not at the time but that Fairline didn't know whether I was or not when we were turned away. In my experience, business deals do sometimes turn on these small details. I have a customer who I first met an exhibition many years ago who has bought millions of quids worth of equipment from us since then. He told me once that he started buying from us because I was the only person he found on any stand that would talk to him!

Yeah but my point is you were NOT a buyer. You have extrapolated from your situation and concluded that they would piiss off a real customer. Why not use my circumstances instead, becuase I am an actual customer so there is no need for extrapolation? After a couple of years of boatshow chatting I bought a boat from them in 1999 (in a 3way boat share, incidentally) and they were very nice to me, and since then I have bought/ordered 4 further new boats from them. Job done, so far as Fairline's customer interaction is concerned.

You don't have any evidence of them turning away ACTUAL potential customers. You say they don't know who is real and who isn't, but the evidence in this thread is that they correctly distinguised between an actual potential customer and someone who wouldn't have bought a boat whether they made the 2.30 appointment or not.

I should bloody well hope so. I expect the owners/directors of the manufacturers my company represents to be present at all major exhibitions to press the flesh with my key customers. Its all part of the sales effort and I wouldn't expect any less. In fact, if the high ups weren't there, I'd be asking why not!

We're in total agreement. But of the big builders, I think Fairline were the only firm that had shareholders/main board/CEO walking the stand and seeking out/spending time with customers and strong potentials >1% of turnover, weren't they?

 

[ari]

JFM has said it so much more eloquently than me!

Presumably NONE of you have Bentley's or Ferrari's or Rolls Royces? Because last time I was at a motor show there was zero chance of getting onto those stands and having a good prod around. Now ok, completely different you might say, but the principle is the same, I was a paying ticket holder, surely I had a right to march right up to that Roller stand and start prodding buttons, not hang over the rail like an oik?

I'm afraid it's about managing (your own) expectations, no boat show stand is going to please all the people all the time, and frankly I'd be amazed if a remotely serious potential Fairline customer couldn't easily get aboard the boat of his choice, and even more amazed if someone really was prepared to shell out a six or seven figure sum on what could be their second best choice just because they'd got the hump over a little crowd management to such a degree that they struck Fairline off their list.

 

[jfm]

I dont care how bright you are you can never tell whose got the money,if you want to succed in business you treat everyone the same.In the early days when I was in business selling high value products I had a scruffy customer come in and I didnt bother too much with him,after he,d gone a customer said" do you know who that was",I replied no.It came about that he owned a large successful engineering company.Never made that mistake again,probably thats why I retired at 55!

I completely disagree. Of course you can tell. Sure, no process is 100% accurate but you can get to 99.9% accurate if you have a bit of nous. Furthermore, folks with a few million spare and able to buy a big boat, and using precious time to go visit a boat show and consider buying, will tend to be intelligent and subtley (without showing bank statement) convey to the salesman that they are serious lookers not browsers. It's entirely rational for them to do that and quite illogical not to. If you call Knight Frank to look at a nice £4million penthouse, what possible advantage do you score by not giving any clue as to whether you have the £4m or not?

This is nothing to do with checking what they are wearing though - I agree that aspect

 

[jfm]

I'm afraid it's about managing (your own) expectations, no boat show stand is going to please all the people all the time, and frankly I'd be amazed if a remotely serious potential Fairline customer couldn't easily get aboard the boat of his choice, and even more amazed if someone really was prepared to shell out a six or seven figure sum on what could be their second best choice just because they'd got the hump over a little crowd management to such a degree that they struck Fairline off their list.

Exactly. And on the 2.30 vs 2.45pm appointment thing, there is that excellent old adage about if you want a good job done seek out the busy person

 

[ari]

Just on the time thing. I wonder what the response would have been if someone was in the process of negotiating a deal and the salesman looked at his watch and said "sorry, time's up, I've promised to show someone I've never met before around a boat. Goodbye".

They'd be on here in no time complaining about being dumped, why didn't they manage the other person, maybe taken them into the hospitality area and given them a coffee or something?

As has been said, with so many variables, and too many viewers, not enough boats/staff there's always going to be compromises and issues. Quadruple that on a weekend.

Seems to me that Fairline, and indeed all the major prestige manufacturers are simply trying to find the best way to manage that whilst pissing the least number of people off.