Searush
Well-Known Member
I'm sure he will be greatly stressed. The costs of this could easily put him into what for him would be serious debt. Best wishes for a reasonable outcome, for all affected.
Propeller fell off after 1 hour, what to do?
- Thread starter nrbx
- Start date
I'm sure he will be greatly stressed. The costs of this could easily put him into what for him would be serious debt. Best wishes for a reasonable outcome, for all affected.
noelex
Well-Known Member
It worth asking around to see if anyone took any photos that may show your boat in the background. Digital photos can often reveal a lot of detail and people love taking photos of their boat.
scottie
Well-Known Member
If the contractor was working legitimately in a marina he should have insurance I would suggest this to be case for using it.
SovereignDiver
Well-Known Member
Hi NRBX. Already been covered but 8 days between prop replacement and launch?
Whenever I am lifted I always remove my props, no they're not SS they're ali, but...
If they ain't there they cannot get stolen or damaged by ne'r do wells.
Likewise, I only replace then on launch day and make sure I'm on post until she's lifted and back in the oggin.
I am really sorry to hear about your experience, but props are props and don't just fall off if correctly fitted. Boatyards never mind how good the security all have issues. Your engineer is only stating the obvious as far as I'm concerned. Only IMHO
Whenever I am lifted I always remove my props, no they're not SS they're ali, but...
If they ain't there they cannot get stolen or damaged by ne'r do wells.
Likewise, I only replace then on launch day and make sure I'm on post until she's lifted and back in the oggin.
I am really sorry to hear about your experience, but props are props and don't just fall off if correctly fitted. Boatyards never mind how good the security all have issues. Your engineer is only stating the obvious as far as I'm concerned. Only IMHO
DIW
Well-Known Member
As I understand it the 'contract' for the works were placed with your Project Manager, therefore you should persue your claim with him. He engaged or sub-contracted and instructed the Engineer to carry out the work , not you. He would need to make a counter claim against the Engineer if negligence is proven.
Was this a 'Gentlemans agreement ' or was there any paperwork involved?
I hope you reach a satisfactory conclusion.
Was this a 'Gentlemans agreement ' or was there any paperwork involved?
I hope you reach a satisfactory conclusion.
nrbx
Well-Known Member
Hi guys,
Have found a picture, unfortunatly for the prop that i still have.
However that is definitly the old washer thing!!! No idea if its installed right from the pic though...
Its worth noting that while anti fouling i did notice the old washers, and the bits that fit in the key part of the shaft were definitly broken off and missing. So i guess hes put the faulty old ones back on hence it came off.
We at least know he did on this one.
Have found a picture, unfortunatly for the prop that i still have.
However that is definitly the old washer thing!!! No idea if its installed right from the pic though...
Its worth noting that while anti fouling i did notice the old washers, and the bits that fit in the key part of the shaft were definitly broken off and missing. So i guess hes put the faulty old ones back on hence it came off.
We at least know he did on this one.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
This is somewhat different from his original account in your first post where he claimed he purchased and fitted new washers. If the washer on the port side is clearly old then that strengthens your case. Lock washers should be replaced every time. False economy to do otherwise.
Still a bit concerned that you paid him direct as that suggests your contract was with him and not the Project Manager. He may have no money so even if you get a judgement you may not be able to collect.
henryf
Well-Known Member
Just a quick note on the small claims court and having to pay for the other side's legal fees if you lose. As far as I'm aware this is not the case in a small claims court. I think it is more designed to be 2 sides sitting across a table with a magistrate at the end and the magistrate showing common sense rather than a long winded legal battle over a point of law.
As things stand common sense says he made a mistake. If you can show any evidence, be that in photographic form or from an expert, possibly from this forum, which explains why the prop would have come off and how that can really only be as a result of the recent work then you will win. Explain how the prop stayed on for the hour as you were motoring forwards and only came off when you went into reverse.
Whilst not an engineer the magistrate will be sensible. For the chap to say I've been doing it man and boy for 30 years and everyone is happy with my work isn't enough I'm afraid. I've been getting in and out of sports car wearing jeans for over 20 years but I still caught one of my nads in the crotch seam yesterday and it bloody hurt I can tell you!
I would be amazed if you don't win the full amount. It might be worth looking into filing the claim against both the person who did the work and your manager jointly then let the magistrate decide who is liable. That's if you can do a small claims against two people at the same time.
Once again good luck and glad to hear you have found a prop in a sensible timeframe. A lesser man would have dug his heels in and sought damages for weeks of loss of use and or hire of another boat for a few weekends. You are doing everything you can to speed things up and lessen the financial claim, that will be seen in a positive light.
Henry
As things stand common sense says he made a mistake. If you can show any evidence, be that in photographic form or from an expert, possibly from this forum, which explains why the prop would have come off and how that can really only be as a result of the recent work then you will win. Explain how the prop stayed on for the hour as you were motoring forwards and only came off when you went into reverse.
Whilst not an engineer the magistrate will be sensible. For the chap to say I've been doing it man and boy for 30 years and everyone is happy with my work isn't enough I'm afraid. I've been getting in and out of sports car wearing jeans for over 20 years but I still caught one of my nads in the crotch seam yesterday and it bloody hurt I can tell you!
I would be amazed if you don't win the full amount. It might be worth looking into filing the claim against both the person who did the work and your manager jointly then let the magistrate decide who is liable. That's if you can do a small claims against two people at the same time.
Once again good luck and glad to hear you have found a prop in a sensible timeframe. A lesser man would have dug his heels in and sought damages for weeks of loss of use and or hire of another boat for a few weekends. You are doing everything you can to speed things up and lessen the financial claim, that will be seen in a positive light.
Henry
jfm
Well-Known Member
Neil
Are you saying that picture was taken AFTER the guy fitted both props? It shows an old washer. That per se isn't of much relevance becuase the washers on a properly fitted props don't do much anyway and plenty of fitters re-use the washers, but it does prove (it seems to me) that the guy has lied to you in writing. Armed with that fact your chances of success in court shoot up, if you decide to take that route
Are you saying that picture was taken AFTER the guy fitted both props? It shows an old washer. That per se isn't of much relevance becuase the washers on a properly fitted props don't do much anyway and plenty of fitters re-use the washers, but it does prove (it seems to me) that the guy has lied to you in writing. Armed with that fact your chances of success in court shoot up, if you decide to take that route
nrbx
Well-Known Member
Not paid anyone yet! It was just suggested i should.
But yes i cant believe the old ones on that prop! I am kicking myself so much for not having a picture of the other one. I did take one but it didnèt survive the delete spree as that prop was less shiney
Although seems odd to say you replaced them, when in fact it looks like he has not.
But yes i cant believe the old ones on that prop! I am kicking myself so much for not having a picture of the other one. I did take one but it didnèt survive the delete spree as that prop was less shiney
Although seems odd to say you replaced them, when in fact it looks like he has not.
nrbx
Well-Known Member
Yes it was taken when we arrived at the end of the day he claimed to have finished fitting them. I was then onboard from that time until it launched.
Kaya
New Member
You can download pretty ygood data recovery software for sd cards and the like - unless you have filled you card up and emptied a few times since you deleted it you may be lucky and get the picture back
AndieMac
Well-Known Member
I've been getting in and out of sports car wearing jeans for over 20 years but I still caught one of my nads in the crotch seam yesterday and it bloody hurt I can tell you!
Henry
AndieMac
Well-Known Member
One hundred metres square is a big area to search for a small item on a silt bottom. Even if you asked the dredge guys to keep an ear out, it would just be the sound of crunching metal as it hit the rotating cutter head, especially a large dredger.
Assassin
Well-Known Member
Just a few observations from what i have seen as this story has unfolded.
Who appointed the propellor guy, you or the project manager? the payment becomes inconsequential but the appointment of the contractor is? If the PM appointed him then he is liable.
You stated the prop guy claimed to have fitted new lock washers and nuts, ask for a copy of the original sales invoice as each item will be itemised, and you have a clear picture showing old lock washers fitted.
Keep a record of all conversations between you, even if they are hand written and abbreviated, as long as the main points are there, he will look a fool if he claims differently to what you have written and recorded. Anything recorded in this way carries a lot of evidencial weight in criminal and civil proceedings.
As for claiming pikies were in the area, can he prove this? after all he has made the claim, and would need to substantiate it, and why would they refit anything if they could not remove the props. Why did they only go for one and not both, and how did they do it without your knowledge if you were aboard.
Civil cases rest on one simple issue, "balance of probability" and is it probable that their was an attempted theft without your knowledge? unlikely, so what probable explanation is there? they were refitted incorrectly.
You would win this case easily.
Who appointed the propellor guy, you or the project manager? the payment becomes inconsequential but the appointment of the contractor is? If the PM appointed him then he is liable.
You stated the prop guy claimed to have fitted new lock washers and nuts, ask for a copy of the original sales invoice as each item will be itemised, and you have a clear picture showing old lock washers fitted.
Keep a record of all conversations between you, even if they are hand written and abbreviated, as long as the main points are there, he will look a fool if he claims differently to what you have written and recorded. Anything recorded in this way carries a lot of evidencial weight in criminal and civil proceedings.
As for claiming pikies were in the area, can he prove this? after all he has made the claim, and would need to substantiate it, and why would they refit anything if they could not remove the props. Why did they only go for one and not both, and how did they do it without your knowledge if you were aboard.
Civil cases rest on one simple issue, "balance of probability" and is it probable that their was an attempted theft without your knowledge? unlikely, so what probable explanation is there? they were refitted incorrectly.
You would win this case easily.
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
I'm now confused. With the prop on the shaft how could you tell that the key was missing? Or are you saying that the props were off when you antifouled and the key wasn't in the shaft then? If so that's not unusual and doesn't necessarily mean that a key wasn't fitted when the prop was put back on.
Either way, something went very wrong and I'd be pretty annoyed in your position. The idea that someone tried to steal it before launch, loosening the nut but not taking the prop just seems plain daft.
Chris_d
Well-Known Member
Just a quick observation on that photo, standard engineering good practice is to have a minimum 2 threads showing outside the nut so that doesn't look like its properly fitted to me.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
andy59
Well-Known Member
http://www.ybw.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11783&d=1306362352
I cant make out what the washer is actually locked to , what i mean is there is a tab folded over the nut but cant see if it is bent over the prop or maybe a keyway in the shaft , so , if it wasnt fitted tight enough whats to stop the nut undoeing ( the washer would just turn with the nut ! )
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DAKA
Well-Known Member
I am kicking myself so much for not having a picture of the other one. I did take one but it didnèt survive the delete spree as that prop was less shiney
Its normal when deleting only to delete the 'short cut' the file remains in tack for months years afterwards until you eventually need more space and overwrite it.
Its not too difficult to recover deleted photos, there are loads of programs that will work on line, ask the question on the lounge saying what type of camera/sd card they are on and someone will point you in the right direction.
They are not really deleted, just filed out of place for now.