Propeller fell off after 1 hour, what to do?

[nrbx]

Hi Guy, Gals, and everyone inbetween,

As per usual things are going wrong over here.

My new to me boat had a ding out of one prop, so the man managing most of my work was asked to arrange for them to be refurbished.

He advised me he had someone take them off and that they would charge 300 GBP to do this and put them back on. I agreed and it was suggested i paid him direct to avoid the VAT as he does not charge it.

Although i have not yet paid him, he had asked for 380 Gbp payment.

Eventually after much delay the props were back on and looked shiny on the 11th May.

The boat was then launched on the 19th May, and we went straight out for a test run. We did around 20 miles at up to 26 knotts.

Coming back in to port solent, we put the boat in reverse and the starboard propeller fell off, we think it missed the rest of the boat but are yet to be lifted, although we are not leaking at least.

We were told by the boat manager to contact the propeller man who after 4 and a half days has sent the following email;

Mr Bowden


I have given the above a great deal of thought since we spoke on Friday and as a result I am convinced I carried out the job correctly. I consider myself a professional marine engineer and subsequently take pride in all work I undertake. My reputation depends on me so doing. I have a significant portfolio of satisfied customers who would confirm this.


I assure you I fitted both propellers in a proper and competent manner. All the required parts were in place and I have receipts, dated the day the work was undertaken, to confirm same. The locking washer was in point of fact purchased from the propeller repairers that day.


As the work was carried out on the 11th of May and your boat was not put back in the water until the 19th, eight days later, I can not be held responsible for what could or might have happened in the intervening period whilst it was ashore.


Given the fact I am adamant I did all that was required for what was a very simple job, I am unable to compensate you for your loss as I believe I was not negligent in anyway.


-snip-

I am quite firmly of the stance that he is fully liable for all the costs as no way should a propeller fall off after 1 hour (please note we have used a underwater camera and there is no drive shaft damage).

What should i do? We have been months delayed already and I am desperate to start using my new boat

All the best,

Neil

 

[rosssavage]

Disappointingly, if the boat was accessible by ANYONE else in the intervening eight days, he may have a point.

I would being very suspicious of his workmanship, but without any hard evidence of negligence on his part, it's going to be tough to prove it.

Of course, he may be absolutely correct in his assertion. Did you have a final check before the boat was relaunched?

 

[carlton]

The prop man has a point in that, unless you personally checked everything before getting her wet, you've no way of knowing whether or not anything was missing. Presume that was the first time you selected astern, when you came back in? If you can remember where you were it could be worth getting a diver involved. It should be the lowest cost option, regardless of who ends up paying.

Your manager dude will try to fob you off onto the prop man, but don't let him. Your contract seems to be with the manager and not the prop man. You're in a position of strength as you've yet to pay him.

Depends whether or not you want to deal with the manager again, but you could simply engage a diver and deduct his fees from the manager's £380.

BTW, if you fit them yourself they rarely seem to fall off, for some reason. Good luck either way.

 

[Ripster]

So the prop nut has undone and come off? Nothing has sheered off? (appreciate you may not know yet.) If the nut has come undone and the shaft and thread are intact, then it sounds like it may not have been fitted and locked on correctly..IMHO of course.

 

[carlton]

So the prop nut has undone and come off? Nothing has sheered off? (appreciate you may not know yet.) If the nut has come undone and the shaft and thread are intact, then it sounds like it may not have been fitted and locked on correctly..IMHO of course.

...or some low-life wabbed off with it in the intervening 8 days...

 

[Firefly625]

Disappointingly, if the boat was accessible by ANYONE else in the intervening eight days, he may have a point.

I would being very suspicious of his workmanship, but without any hard evidence of negligence on his part, it's going to be tough to prove it.

Of course, he may be absolutely correct in his assertion. Did you have a final check before the boat was relaunched?

obviously you are in a horrid position. You have paid for a professional to do a job, and in quite a obvious manner the job has not been done correctly.....

or has it? You are posting to people who are not on either side, I read the letter that you received and TBH I understand this chaps point of view. If he had replaced the props, the boat had been immediately launched and a prop had fallen off he sounds the kinda guy that would have put things right. However with a time lapse is it not within the bounds of possibility that something occurred... perhaps someone else was doing a similer task, realised that they had broken a lock washer and saw your boat sitting there with nice shiny new ones and just thought they would do a quick swap?

...or the chap may be a complete bounder and write a good letter!

....My advice, see if your insurance would cover it...you don't have to go into too much detail (probably would not volunteer for example that this work had just been done), see what they say. Oh dear... I won't be going to heaven

 

[Tranona]

First you need to be clear who your contact is with. Even then it is probably going to be difficult to prove that the other party was negligent unless you have solid physical evidence that he did not lock the nut off properly. The fact that the other prop is presumably OK and he has evidence that he purchsed the lock washers is all in his favour. As suggested worth trying to recover the prop to see if there is any damage - saves you buying a new prop.

If you feel you have good evidence then the small claims court is the way to go if he won't pay up - but you still need a strong case to argue your side.

 

[nrbx]

So the prop nut has undone and come off? Nothing has sheered off? (appreciate you may not know yet.) If the nut has come undone and the shaft and thread are intact, then it sounds like it may not have been fitted and locked on correctly..IMHO of course.

Yep shaft is fully intact without the prop and nut


Firefly625 - The guy had to rush to put them back on as i was fed up of excuses so told him launch date was a week early and they were put on the day before that.

When i phoned him on the day it happened he said " Yes it's my problem i will sort it out "
I asked if next weekend was possible and he said " Possibly lets work to that ".
On monday he asked me for boat and engine details to source the propeller.
And then today he is denying any responsibilty.



I can't see any boat with my size drive shafts / washers in the yard, so i doubt anyone nabbed one.

Coupled with this i was onboard non stop for the last 8 days (the morning after he installed that prop) so probably would have noticed someone doing all of that.


I see a lot of people say it is my problem that i did not check them myself. At the end of the day i paid a professional to do a job that i did not know how to do myself. I have no requirment to check them therefore?

If i pay someone to bake a cake as i can't cook, it's not my fault if it tastes like ****?

 

[Searush]

Sounds like you're starting to build up a case, but it is still your word against his at the mo. In Small Claims court, they tend to find for the customer in these sort of cases.

 

[volvopaul]

Hi Guy, Gals, and everyone inbetween,

As per usual things are going wrong over here.

My new to me boat had a ding out of one prop, so the man managing most of my work was asked to arrange for them to be refurbished.

He advised me he had someone take them off and that they would charge 300 GBP to do this and put them back on. I agreed and it was suggested i paid him direct to avoid the VAT as he does not charge it.

Although i have not yet paid him, he had asked for 380 Gbp payment.

Eventually after much delay the props were back on and looked shiny on the 11th May.

The boat was then launched on the 19th May, and we went straight out for a test run. We did around 20 miles at up to 26 knotts.

Coming back in to port solent, we put the boat in reverse and the starboard propeller fell off, we think it missed the rest of the boat but are yet to be lifted, although we are not leaking at least.

We were told by the boat manager to contact the propeller man who after 4 and a half days has sent the following email;



I am quite firmly of the stance that he is fully liable for all the costs as no way should a propeller fall off after 1 hour (please note we have used a underwater camera and there is no drive shaft damage).

What should i do? We have been months delayed already and I am desperate to start using my new boat

All the best,

Neil

Hi Neil, firstly id say unless the engineer had trouble getting the props off or he didnt have the correct puller or tools if a sterndrive boat hes charged you way over the odds.

If its a shaft drive boat and your prop has just fallen off then its obvious it was not fitted correctly as the nut must have wound its way off the thread, I dont like locktabs at all , a castle nut and split pin is much safer. Aside that there are thefts around the coastal marinas, ive had 2 emails from Hant police today as im signed up to project kraken, in fact a jet ski was stolen on 100yards from my boat this past Saturday from RK marines yard.

Maybe in your engineers defence someone had attempted to steal your prop or props and had the nut undone but could not pull the prop, yes it happens, infact the boat ive serviced today at Port Solent has had its battery master switch keys stolen over the weekend, ive also heard about drive anodes being stolen after engineers like myself have fitted them, so now I always take photos after ive fitted them with the boat name clearly in the pic, as after ive fitted them its not my responsibility for any further loss in my opinion.

However I would not state his email as law, I d invite the engineer to be at the time of lift and have every chance to examine the shafts before anyone else can comment, thats what I would insist on. Im there tomorrow for an 08.30 launch.

 

[nrbx]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply, we had 2 days of checks. Sadly the torque and tightness of nuts on the props was not on that list.

However, the nuts were not loose as i studied the whole boat in detail for around an hour before it went in. There was no obvious gap or loose nut on the props. All be it i paid no real interest to that as i was really looking for anti foul touch ups and sea cock issues if any.

I am also fairly certain that being onboard from the 12th to the 19th, i would have heard someone trying to steal the prop. Furthermore the cockpit lights were on at night which would suggest to people i was onboard.

Coupled with this some valuble items (brand new anodes, wrench set, 3 tins of anitfoul, dog bicuits! 2 new leisure batteries, rib, outboard engine on rib) were left by the props and were not taken...

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

First prize here would be to get divers on the scene asap, recover the prop, and for a bonus prize the nut and locking washer - I know this is hugely unlikely but as an search exercise for a rescue diver it's very much not impossible, especially in the 24 hours or so immediately following the loss. Got to be worth a go, no? An unbent locktab would be definitive.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[volvopaul]

Which props gone, port or stb, id say port as it can wind its way off but go on tell me, what boat is it? p435?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Sq 52 ?

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[nrbx]

Hi Paul,

Missing one is Starboard, and its a sq 52, 2000, TAMD 122P EDC

 

[Firefly625]

Yep shaft is fully intact without the prop and nut


Firefly625 - The guy had to rush to put them back on as i was fed up of excuses so told him launch date was a week early and they were put on the day before that.

When i phoned him on the day it happened he said " Yes it's my problem i will sort it out "
I asked if next weekend was possible and he said " Possibly lets work to that ".
On monday he asked me for boat and engine details to source the propeller.
And then today he is denying any responsibilty.



I can't see any boat with my size drive shafts / washers in the yard, so i doubt anyone nabbed one.

Coupled with this i was onboard non stop for the last 8 days (the morning after he installed that prop) so probably would have noticed someone doing all of that.


I see a lot of people say it is my problem that i did not check them myself. At the end of the day i paid a professional to do a job that i did not know how to do myself. I have no requirment to check them therefore?

If i pay someone to bake a cake as i can't cook, it's not my fault if it tastes like ****?

Neil

a number of facts here that kind of puts a different spin on things, something tells me your chap found out the price of a replacement prop and has had a shock..! I don't think it your problem. But will be a bit of a battle, good luck!

 

[volvopaul]

Hi Paul,

Missing one is Starboard, and its a sq 52, 2000, TAMD 122P EDC

Ahh yes I know your boat, thats a shame all the work you have had done, shame you didnt give me a chance on your motors, I know who your agent is now, good luck, one hell of a prop on the bottom then!.

 

[nrbx]

Hi Paul,

Shame indeed! My issue was I've never boated in the solent so knew nobody and just went with what i could find nearby.

Theres been plenty of things done that in hindsight would have been better done elsewhere.

Do you travel? As I will need someone to do my servicing where it is going one day (York)

 

[volvopaul]

Hi Paul,

Shame indeed! My issue was I've never boated in the solent so knew nobody and just went with what i could find nearby.

Theres been plenty of things done that in hindsight would have been better done elsewhere.

Do you travel? As I will need someone to do my servicing where it is going one day (York)

Oh yes Naburn or York motor boat club? yes im 74 miles away and work in both .

 

[nrbx]

Ah awesome well next spring I shall be hunting you then hehe.
Will be at Naburn.
(assuming we got it there with 2 props by then of course)

One for fun of him getting details off me for replacment.

And then i get his email of changed attitude.......