Princess or Ferretti , what boat would you choose?

[MapisM]

compared to a C70 the wooden ends are missing on the gunwale tops

You'll rather regret to have such wooden finishing around, than miss it if you don't have it.
Wood attached above ANY external part of GRP boats (decks included) is totally pointless from a functional viewpoint, and can turn into a maintenance nightmare in the long term if not built properly - as if often the case.
The only reason why you see teak finishing in many GRP boats is that it looks nice, and people demand it.
Name me one single professional boat with wooden finishing, if you can (unless wooden built, of course).
Same goes for hi/low platform, I don't think you'll ever miss it.
It's just a gadget eating up hull length, for any given LOA.
Again, have you ever seen a professional diving boat (even the very big ones used in the most famous diving areas around the world) with other than a large and convenient s/steel ladder, with a central pillar which allows to climb on it also with your fins on?
That's the only adaptation I'd consider in a boat extensively used for diving, and it's an easy peasy job.

Re. Posillipo in general, I can't comment because I have no specific experience on the boats of this yard, but indeed the layout seems to match nicely your wishes. I just can't see the "+2" berths though, which I guess must be in a crew cabin. Is it in the bow section in front of the master cabin? If so, surely it can't have a shower, but I'd check if there's at least a WC.

Good luck with your search!

 

[BartW]

You'll rather regret to have such wooden finishing around, than miss it if you don't have it.
Wood attached above ANY external part of GRP boats (decks included) is totally pointless from a functional viewpoint, and can turn into a maintenance nightmare in the long term if not built properly - as if often the case.
The only reason why you see teak finishing in many GRP boats is that it looks nice, and people demand it.
Name me one single professional boat with wooden finishing, if you can (unless wooden built, of course).

Surprising comment from a wooden boat owner, but I get what you mean.
Do you know that the complete top section of the C70 is made from wood, and painted ?
In fact everything above the cockpitfloor and deckfloor is made from wood, even the hull sides, inside and outside !

can you advice me on this: I discovered many cracks and blisters in the painting of the top section of the C70 last thursday,
how often do you need to repaint ?

perhaps its because I like wooden boats so much that I prefer the C70 to the Posillipo ? The posillipo is completely GRP. she's much lighter

Re. Posillipo
I just can't see the "+2" berths though, which I guess must be in a crew cabin. Is it in the bow section in front of the master cabin? If so, surely it can't have a shower, but I'd check if there's at least a WC.

The crew cabin is in the bow, I will asc the broker about shower and toilet,

Perhaps I should fly to Athens, and put my offer on a C70 on hold ?

 

[scubaman]

Hi BartW,

The boat seems to be in great condition, and it does look perfect for diving! But messing about with all the tanks and weights is likely to play havoc with the cockpit surfaces. Regardless of the boat you choose, do you have plans to 'reinforce' the cockpit and bathing platform to withstand the odd diver who staggers up the steps in a swell with his last strength ?

 

[MapisM]

can you advice me on this: I discovered many cracks and blisters in the painting of the top section of the C70 last thursday, how often do you need to repaint ?

It depends on the overall quality of the job (preparation included), and also on the type of painting (awlgrip vs. other types of paint).
But in a sense, it's good that you saw many defects, rather than just a few spots, because it means that you should go for a total repainting - and obviously consider that cost in the framework of the deal.
You can expect a properly done job to last for a decade, or even more.
But as always, you get what you pay for.
Initially, it's hard to tell the difference between a good and a poor job, just by looking at the final resut. But the latter might begin to deteriorate MUCH earlier, even after just 2 or 3 seasons.

 

[BartW]

Oh lord we love this boat !!!!
Last Thursday morning we first went to Ostia Marina (near Rome), to look at a C70 “Bleu Angel”
As a coincidence, this Marina is near the CAntiery NAvale Di Ostia, more about that in a following post .
We knew that this boat is slightly over our budget, but I thought lets take this opportunity to look at this, newer , better engined C70, before we go looking at the older C70 that we eventually want to buy.
We had an appointment with the Captain, who has been on this boat sinds 6 years doing charters.
You could feel how the captain cherish his toy.
many thanks to Alfonzo, for giving us a détailed tour on the boat, and make us falling in love with this C70.

This is a 1992 boat

Cockpit nice and clean

Look at the solid steel gard rails, they feel is if these are solid metal bars in stead of
Tubes

saloon, look at the wooden floor, apparently this not orriginal, but yes I like that.

Expandable Dining table, all made with real wood inlay’s…

Drawers and lockers everywhere

This saloon toilet is not orriginal, this is retrofitted in the space behind the lower helm,
Compared to the other C70 (pics come later) where this space is empty. Swmbo thinks it’s a clever idea to have a toilet (and shower!?) on saloon level, next to the door going to the Port side deck

Copilot table, could be transformed with a curtain, in to a extra cabin (clever idea from Jfm),
in combination with the extra toilet and shower, Complete extra 2p cabin !

One of the guest cabins

Pay attention to the wood details , all edges and corners are solid wood, surfaces is a real wood layer with different inlay’s of other real wood ! really really nice
And these solid Stainless steel window frames, I'm not sure if they still make them so solid and nice these day's

This bed corner is made from slices of real wood

Bathrooms all have the orriginal teac floor

Galley, rather old, but efficient and clean

Deck lockers for ropes …

Upper helm station, might need some polish or paint

Stern quarters, room for washing machine, desalinator, freezer, ……, scuba tank compressor !!
Pay attention to the grey flat surface in top of this picture, this is a box, full beam, acces from the cockpit to a rope locker, with water drainings through the hull.
This could become a interesting detail / space for adding steps from cockpit to the platform modification….

Fresh water pumps and waste water or bilge pumps

Nice and clean engine room with 2 x MAN, pay attention at the noise reduction mats on the sides, and the grils on the ceiling…

We were overwhelmed by the quality details of this vessel, perhaps it has to do with fact that we have no experince with Luxury Yachts,
Anyhow this is far different from the many plastic boats we saw at recent boot shows, with furniture doors and lockers, covered with wood prints….
Absolutely a Yacht that we like, both myself and the other half,
Bleu Angel is completely ready for the new season for high demanding charter guests, a little over the top for my friends and family and my diving guest ;-)

Now up to the next visit, a bleu C70, that according the broker might need , some small repairs or improvements

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

That one looks fab, BartW. Would they accept a offer? It cant be easy to sell big mobos in this market

 

[BartW]

Our appointment with the broker for the next visit was IN the Canados Yard , he’s independent, but takes care of the Yards used boat sales. and his office is on the yard.
But before we go to the next C70 in Anzio, we had a very short and fast walk through the yard, this is on the corner of the Mediterranean sea and the river going to Rome.

This is a Canados 84 Open, in the yard for maintenance

Boat comes from Antibes, some forum members might know her

Ignore the lady on the picture, just to put the size of these arneson surface drives in perspective

Some new boats in Build

And this picture proves that we were actually IN the yard, the logo is no photoshop
One more time the lady believes that when she ‘s on the photo, is an improvement for the image

Some more boats there for maintenance

Then we walked through the furniture factory

This is a cupboard for a cabin in a C84, serial number 43, and the left side

This is a new 116 in build

Stern quarters

Dining room

Saloon

the BRIDGE above the dining room…

A nice intermezzo between two vieuws at Canados 70’s

And now we leave to an old yard in Anzio, it’s a one hour drive south of Ostia,
To look at Nefertari a bleu Canados 70

 

[MapisM]

And now we leave to an old yard in Anzio

While you're around there, try some fish with the local Nettuno wine in this place.
Afterwards, we'll talk of Croatian cuisine...!

 

[BartW]

OK,
Now we go looking at the boat which was the reason of our trip to Rome,
She has been used last season, but since then didn’t have any service nor maintenance,
The layout and details are more or less the same as the one posted above, but we had to look for all items that need attention, maintenance or repair.
Global Picture of the boat is in post nr 53, she’s from 1990, 2 x DD1040HP
Propshaft doesn’t have play nor damage, but needs cleaning

Same for the flaps, did you notice the cooling tubes from the fridge on the hull, below water surface ?

Fridge and icemaker in the saloon

Lockers everywhere

Expandable dining table, again, look at the details of the real wood…

Nicely integrated Gliding door between saloon and helm/galley/crew area

This is the copilot desc, underneath the drawer is acces to the storage room under the front windows / bow

Cushions from the seats around the cockpit table need replacing (as all other cushions and fabrics in the boat). Good thing, because this can be done now all to our own taste !

Electric panel, very basic made and easy acces

I could live with this seat, if the color was not so ugly, should be black or dark grey
Same for the helm station panels, replacing the ugly brown bij black leather.
Next door to my business is a company who does refurbishing of expensive historic cars, and they are really good !

This is the window in master cabin, with damage from water ingress

More artwork with wood

Here you can see that the teac is worn, and needs replacing

Crew cabin

To be continued…

 

[BartW]

Some Blisters on the deck

Need some cleaning here

FB stairs and side door

Crane (250kg max I guess ?) this crane is a old custom thing, perhaps we could investigate what the approx. max weight could be…

And now to the e/r

The captain is proud about his clean E/R

The hydraulic passerelle, old but solid technology, easy acces for maintenance and eventual repairs.

The cockpit furniture is worn from weather and salt water spray, and needs maintenance, or replacement

There is carpet in the saloon (ordinary plywood underneath), no wooden floor, have to change that to real solid wood.

This space behind the lower helm station, is available for an extra toilet and Shower, see previous C70

The side windows also had a little water ingress, easy solution would be painting that panel glossy black !

To be continued in the next post

 

[BartW]

This is the cockpit area where we would like a modification; real steps going to the platform instead of that ladder. Underneath the floor is room (robe locker)
I’m afraid it’s a difficult modification, also for the SS guardrail that goes smoothly over in the ladder banister.

Lockers for fire fighting hoses, another one on SB and on the bow

Side decks, are becoming green

Here you can see some blisters around the passerelle door corners

We have estimated the value of this boat, if she was in good condition, (compared to the other boat for sale here above), first substract the value difference, different age and engine, and then substract the estimation of the cost of all the things here in this list, And then I have send a very low offer to the broker
Points that need attention, service or maintenance are:
1) New teac
2) Engines rebuild (not yet sure, but have to test)
3) And then a long list of small repairs and improvements:
o A few small Osmosis area’s and antifouling
o Replacing electric switches and lights (damage and corrosion and we don't like the gold collor lights)
o Repair damage from leaks in Vip cabin and saloon windows
o Replacing fabric, leather, and cushions on the seats and bench
o Cockpit furniture refreshing (badly worn from weather)
o New Flybridge furniture, fridge and bar cabinet, sun beds,
o Replacing tender crane (?)
o Repairing and Repainting all cracks and damages on the outside
o Replacing old navigation electronics
o Adding Canopy on flybridge
o Repairing and cleaning lack of maintenance from this winter

Are there any other points I should take care of ?
I don’t mind the work, partially done by local workers and partially by workers from my company,
Does the forum think that I could enjoy this boat, or that its going to be a nightmare ?
Any advice is greatly apreciated

 

[MapisM]

Does the forum think that I could enjoy this boat, or that its going to be a nightmare ?

Just a quick thought, 'cause I'm going out in a minute:
I sincerely wish you the first, but I'd fear the latter.

 

[jfm]

Hi Bart
Thanks for pics
On your cost analysis, you kinda suggest that Nefertari should be priced at Blue Angel minus cost of all the repair work. I would think, be careful there, becuase if you are going to spend Nefari+repairs you might as well buy Blue Angel. Blue Angel is a much better kept boat

I would be concerned about the machinery on Nefertari. When you did deeper, nearly every electric motor/pump might need replacing, and perhaps every seacock, every battery, and so on. And the engines would need a careful look. The decks looked ok to me - 12mm thick planks, so just power sand 1mm off the top and recaulk, and they will be perfect. It's a pity Canados teak decking is pretty poor by industry standards, when the build quality elsewhere is so high. No borders and no bending of the side deck planks, pity

The crane on nefetari needs replacing

A lot of things like the flybr dash just need paint, as you know

I would try to get Blue Angel for a low price!

By the way, the varnished wood strips along gunwhale tops are called "capping rails". Much varnishing required because of med sun. There are several Can70 in Antibes cared for by full time captains and they are always putting masking tape on the s/s stanchions and varnishing the capping rails. I now have to do this on the Sq78 but it is much easier because I do not (Praise the Lord!) have the s/s stanchion posts above the teak.

 

[Mr Googler]

I think you reasoning and approach is spot on.

I like to see a used boat in this "honest" condition.

The owner could have spent a few thousand pounds covering up the issues ready for sale. You would then walk about thinking what a fantastic loved boat, only for the problems to surface later due to the cheap cover ups.

At least you know what the current issues are and can have things put right properly. You will obviously have an extensive survey and sea trial so any other big things will hopefully be discovered.

It also sounds like you have the contacts, personnel and time to throw at a project like this, plus the forum lot to confuse matters further . I cant think of a better way to spend my time!!!

I think the main question is, do you go for a cheaper boat that needs obvious work or a more expensive one which appears to need less. Whos to say the more expensive one wont need just as much spent once you own it for a year.

IMHO if you can buy the cheaper one at a price which allows for all the current work and more importantly engine rebuilds, then you will end up with a great looking boat, as new engines and a "behind the scenes" knowledge of your boat.

I would think with the boat looking like it does, they must be open to serious offers as evidently the current owner has lost interest or cant afford to maintain their boat. Good news for you as the buyer in terms of purchasing but obviously lack of maitainence will cost you somewhere along the line.

My only other thought is on value. You may have to spend some large sums of money converting aspects of the boat to suit your diving / family requirements which you could never recover. In the future, changes could add value to the right buyer or reduce value/appeal to other buyers. Maybe a boat already more suitable in layout or design will leave you funds to spend on other smaller refinements.

Prior to your thread I had never heard of Canados and now I'm in love!!

Thanks so much for posting the pictures and letting us share in this exciting journey. I wish you the very best and hope all goes well which ever you decided to buy.

 

[Seahope]

Oh lord we love this boat !!!!

I can see why!

Just out of curiosity how much does it cost to keep a boat like this annually. Does the 10% of the price figure still apply?

 

[BartW]

I would be concerned about the machinery on Nefertari. When you did deeper, nearly every electric motor/pump might need replacing, and perhaps every seacock, every battery, and so on. And the engines would need a careful look.

Its threu that Bleu Angel has been cared for much better, but still most of the machinery is similar age like Nefertari
Nefertari has been in use last year, and had a full time captain at that time.
I have posted mainly "nice" pictures from Bleu Angel, and mainly "bad" pictures from Nefertari, But general impression was that the e/r from Nefertari looked better (cleaner) then Bleu Angel,
Most bad pictures are cosmetic things. In bleu Angel are many finishings that are not our preferred collor oa Leather and fabric finishings, gold collor lights, beige curtains,... with Nefertari we could renew everything according our own taste... ?

how about if there is a drastic price difference, lets say
Bleu Angel is >400K euro
and
Nefertari is <200K euro ?

ofcause a good survey would be needed before final decisions are made

 

[BartW]

Just out of curiosity how much does it cost to keep a boat like this annually. Does the 10% of the price figure still apply?

I never calculate the total yearly cost of my boat, (don't want to be depressed )
honestly speaking I don't know exactly as I never owned such a big boat
You can calculate yourselves:
- Insurance (value 400K)
- mooring (22m)
- Fuel 300liters/hour (depending how much you use her)
- maintenance
I count in minimum one full time employee, to take care of daily maintenance, ...
and then add the flights or travels to the med and expenses,

now I'm going to stop otherwise I wouldn't buy such a boat

 

[Seahope]

 

[BartW]

I sincerely wish you the first, but I'd fear the latter.

a question,
One broker say's that it is practice in Italy, that
both the buyer and the seller need to pay each 5% comission to the broker, so that on top of the agreed price I have to add 5%

the other broker didn't mention anything about this, can I expect him to asc for 5% extra when we might make an agreement ?

in other country's he say's, the broker fee is always included in the price

 

[BartW]

A lot of things like the flybr dash just need paint, as you know

why the FB dash?
on Nefertari the fb dash is deep glossy black,
on Bleu Angel the collor is faded away, matt grey...(this one needs to be painted)