Princess 49

petem said:
Hopefully the 50ft boats made today will be down to £100k by the time I retire in 15 years!
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Well, nowadays you can find 50 footers built 15 years ago for that sort of money, so your hope is actually quite reasonable.
Unless several builders throw the towel in for good in the meantime, hence restoring some kind of equilibrium between offer and demand, also in the used market.
Which, coming to think of it, could well be the 2030 scenario.
 
Deleted User said:
To be honest I don't know why other builders don't use this kind of arrangement more
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I suspect that it has to see with being a bit more expensive solution compared to straight shafts.
Sometimes we forget that also with IPS, while we discuss all their pros and cons, most of their diffusion is actually just due to lower production costs for builders... :)
 
petem said:
Having given the Princess 49 some scrutiny, it would only be fair to give the Squadron 53 the same treatment.

Deck plans can be found here: http://www.fairline.com/en/boats/squadron/53/deckplan

Obviously the limited headroom in the mid cabin remains which will be a show stopper for some. But it does have some notable features. I guess the first of these would be the choice of galley up or galley down. The galley up option makes space for a handy utility room but I can't say I'm that keen on having all the seating down the port side (the sideboard option is even less pointless IMO).

For those that like galley down (perhaps hosted boats), the main deck looks like a great party space with loads of seating.

It's on shafts too that could make it more attractive for those that don't like pods.
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I love you Pete, I really do. If ever I need someone to fight my corner you are number one on speed dial. They say god loves a trier, if Fairline don't take you out for the most almighty feast there is no justice in this world. They should name a model after you :)

The photo which Jimmy posted up shows exactly where Fairline and I suspect others are going wrong. It may well look OK on a computer screen but walking round a full sized mock up you know instantly and exactly what works and what doesn't. The 53 flybridge has all the same problems that the 53 Targa and any other variants that may emerge. If a full size mock up had been built even the tea boy could have spotted the problems.

I'm not sure I share your great party space suggestion, those steps in the main deck are huge and for no gains down below.

I really hope Fairline can flourish but the 53 needs to be quietly retired rather than promoted as the latest and greatest. It is not Oundle's finest hour. Honestly no-one is going to step off a Princess, Prestige or Sunseeker then onto the F53 and think it is a credible option. You simply can't have a main cabin in a cave on a boat of that size.

The 53 was born in difficult times so let's not judge Fairline on it. There are better boats in the model line up. I would suggest the smaller 48 is more spacious.

Henry :)
 
MapisM said:
Well, nowadays you can find 50 footers built 15 years ago for that sort of money, so your hope is actually quite reasonable.
Unless several builders throw the towel in for good in the meantime, hence restoring some kind of equilibrium between offer and demand, also in the used market.
Which, coming to think of it, could well be the 2030 scenario.
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I agree. The biggest risk for my plan would be a collapse in new boat sales meaning there's little used stock and greater demand / higher prices for what there is. Another fly in the anointment will be if they're all on pods!
 
No worries, P. In 15 years, if my old tub will still be afloat, you can count on getting her for much less than £100k.
With shafts and zero thrusters, you would struggle to find anything more distant from the IPS/joystick world! :cool:
 
henryf said:
I would be interested to see an actual real world price for the P52 rather than "the bloke said it was £1.2 million" at a boat show.

We all know that boat shows require a large influx of staff, not all of whom are 100% familiar with the products they are allocated to guard.

Saving £150k on a P49 at list price "That no deals were going to be available on" against a haggled down Prestige 500 is a little unrealistic. Given all that's been said about the Boats dot crew I can't believe there wouldn't be a bit of love available on the Prinny so the real world the gap is likely to be less.

Henry :)
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Maybe 1.2 m euros? But no way sterling.

It would be wonderful to see the base price and options list for the P49; I agree that £150k might be overstating it but £100k could be about right if Princess maintain their high standard. Point is that the Princess is worth the extra outlay, if that's your bag; they make very special environments.

I'm just glad that there are less expensive options that are perhaps, a little less bling. I just about get away with taking clients out on my boat, if I had a Princess V52 they would know that I was charging too much :;

Re the Targa 53 at SIBS, I had a quick glance at it and seem to remember it was north of £1m; is that right? They're going to have to send Pete on a course if they want to sell any more of them at that price :)
 
Nigelpickin said:
Maybe 1.2 m euros? But no way sterling.

It would be wonderful to see the base price and options list for the P49; I agree that £150k might be overstating it but £100k could be about right if Princess maintain their high standard. Point is that the Princess is worth the extra outlay, if that's your bag; they make very special environments.

I'm just glad that there are less expensive options that are perhaps, a little less bling. I just about get away with taking clients out on my boat, if I had a Princess V52 they would know that I was charging too much :;

Re the Targa 53 at SIBS, I had a quick glance at it and seem to remember it was north of £1m; is that right? They're going to have to send Pete on a course if they want to sell any more of them at that price :)
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If the T53 was £1m+, I hate to think what the Sq53 will cost! They don't need me, they need Harry Potter on the sales team! Saying that, they did manage to take quite a few T53 orders before it all went tits up.
 
petem said:
If the T53 was £1m+, I hate to think what the Sq53 will cost! They don't need me, they need Harry Potter on the sales team! Saying that, they did manage to take quite a few T53 orders before it all went tits up.
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Yeah but were they actual real end-user orders, or just dealer stock orders?
 
Nigelpickin said:
I was told it was an customers boat going to the States; it was quite bespoke tho'....and they threw in complementary matching his and hers hard hats for the master cabin :)
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Oh for sure that hull #1 was a customer boat, no dealer in their right mind would have specced that lot on a stock boat. My question though was about the 'quite a few T53 orders' that Pete was talking about.
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
Oh for sure that hull #1 was a customer boat, no dealer in their right mind would have specced that lot on a stock boat. My question though was about the 'quite a few T53 orders' that Pete was talking about.
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I understood that them to be real customer orders. I'd be amazed if the T53 and Sq53 didn't feature in the cut down range. I know you guys didn't like it but the press reaction wasn't as scathing IIRC.
 
I would be interested to see an actual real world price for the P52 rather than "the bloke said it was £1.2 million" at a boat show.

We all know that boat shows require a large influx of staff, not all of whom are 100% familiar with the products they are allocated to guard.

Saving £150k on a P49 at list price "That no deals were going to be available on" against a haggled down Prestige 500 is a little unrealistic. Given all that's been said about the Boats dot crew I can't believe there wouldn't be a bit of love available on the Prinny so the real world the gap is likely to be less.

Henry- unless you are actually going to buy a p52 you will never get the real price as each deal is haggled on spec and availability!.
The gentleman I spoke to was a sales person from princess who had sold the boat to a oversea's customer who had spec'd the boat but allowed it to be shown at Lbs, if he was wrong then that's pretty bad on their part.( don't shoot the messenger)

As for the p49 I held talks with them prior to buying the prestige so £150k is correct on the difference in cost, but I did get the prestige at a good price! It still remains expensive for what you get in real terms of size and volume.
 
Steruth1 said:
As for the p49 I held talks with them prior to buying the prestige so £150k is correct on the difference in cost, but I did get the prestige at a good price! It still remains expensive for what you get in real terms of size and volume.
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The reason for my comment was that your wording implied you assumed no discount would be available due to it's novelty as a new model. But you are confirming that you sat down over a coffee and biscuits in the comfort of the inner sanctum and after consultation with the top brass no variation from list price was offered.

Once again I can't over emphasise the importance of dealing with the right people at shows. It isn't just Princess. I enquired about viewing a circa 60 foot flybridge on the Sunseeker stand to be told you had to pre book viewings prior to the show but I could go on "that one", pointing to a 40 something foot sports boat. Clearly that is not how Sunseeker treat potential buyers, I just got a bad apple who read me wrong in the heat of a busy show.

If you can't wrangle a bit of love on a new P49 you need to seek quiet advice on here.

If genuinely there was no movement but the Prestige was heavily and easily discounted then that tells us all something.

With regard any Fairline 53 orders I also wonder how many were real and how many dealer orders. Of course the press were complimentary. The press are always complimentary even when it's a turd. They want to support advertisers, British boatbuilding, British jobs and they need access to new models. You have to very carefully read between the lines when perusing a MBY review! I constantly joke about it with them at shows. There is a wealth of expertise but tongues are tethered and negative vocabulary muted for the benefit of all involved.


Henry :)
 
petem said:
Hopefully the 50ft boats made today will be down to £100k by the time I retire in 15 years!
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Yeah but by then diesel will be £5/litre (£4.95 of which will be 'green' tax) so you won't be able to afford to run it:D

So buy one now whilst diesel is £1/litre!
 
Henry- that is correct , the problem was I had talks about the p49 in August when it was all hush hush, im sure if I was in the 'buying' position now there would be deals on the p49.
my point however is still the same, a second hand 2014 p52 is on the market for £855k, that's still a lot of money for a 50ft boat!!

im not sure why you think the prestige was heavily discounted and what you are implying with that tells you something?....

we all have choices and I certainly like the princess brand but feel they are loosing reality when it comes to the pricing of new boats.
 
MapisM said:
I suspect that it has to see with being a bit more expensive solution compared to straight shafts.
Sometimes we forget that also with IPS, while we discuss all their pros and cons, most of their diffusion is actually just due to lower production costs for builders... :)
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I concur, V drives offer greater layout flexibility than straight shafts, however can be a pain to set up in a production environment versus IPS which is a doddle.

Simple stuff for builder however I suspect IPS will be a poison pill by the time boat reaches say ten years old. One of the huge benefits of an integrated propulsion system is that it captures servicing for life!

I have actually been discussing a drop in V drive propulsion package already set up with stringers to combat simplicity IPS production installation.
 
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