Due South
Active Member
Is IPS going to be more common place now in future princess models I wonder? Personally I like many here would rather shafts.
Princess 49
- Thread starter petem
- Start date
petem
Well-Known Member
+1, in fact that would be more of a deal maker/breaker for me than all of the above. Call me a luddite but I just don't like pods.
Last edited:
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
It's the real devicive question; shaft or PODS?
What's evident is that new entrants into the leisure market, (and that's who P are going after with this boat), want a joystick. While P and others have been fudging the 50' segment for the last five years Prestige have been delivering, (to customers not dealers), 2 X 50' boat every 6 working days. The hull molds are well and truely paid for by now. On top of that they've build a range of boats that are now being bought by customers moving up through the range. (15 680's all of which are on VOLVO IPS PODS for example).
It's not about fuel saving it's about the perception of what's best from the customers pov and really, if you're dropping 700k on a depreciating asset then 2.5k per year on servicing is pretty small beans.
More interesting will be how the boat handles with the PODS, is it D600 and if so they will need to be very careful with weight in my opinion.
What P and FL seemed to have got wrong IMVHO is how important the 50' boats are to their viability as a boat builder. For the last few years they've been woefully wide of the mark and now they need a leading edge approach to win back customers....
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Actually, I would think that the rendering is correct, but I must apologize in advance if I'll struggle a bit to explain why. And it's just a guesswork, anyway.
Let's start looking also at the lower deck drawing, rather than just the main deck:
Considering the boat size, I suspect that in order to have a decent headroom under the main deck level, they had to lower as much as possible the central section of the master cabin floor, in front of the bed. Hint: the two lines visible in the drawing.
But since they couldn't go lower than the hull
p), along the bed sides they had to raise the floor by 8" (or whatever).Now, if you look at the rendering, you can see that on stbd side the main deck is higher - both under the sofa and under the helm seats, and this allows for the 8" higher roof in that part of the main cabin - fair and square.
But port side is more challenging, because by making the long side of the U shaped sofa wide enough to raise the underneath deck, as required to get a symmetrical headroom below, the two seats on the short sides of the table would have been too narrow, hence loosing two places around the table.
Therefore, they had to take the bull by the horns and raise the whole floor under the U shaped sofa.
Which in turn means that all the seating is 8" higher than the stbd side sofa.
Just guesswork, as I said. But if mine guesswork would be correct, yep, it definitely wouldn't be the best bit of boat design I've ever seen (understatement).
But having said that, everything in boat design is a compromise, as we all know.
And sorry petem, but imho this bit of bad design (assuming it's actually there) is still nowhere near the stellar levels achieved by others, in headroom-related poor design....
Last edited:
crustysailor321
Member
Same here. Maybe I'm just a traditionalist, but I always prefer shafts to IPS.
Another thing about IPS, how will it affect the sea keeping and handling of the boat? Princess don't have much experience with IPS. If I remember correctly, mby took a subtle dig at Princess when they reviewed the V48 (their first IPS model), critiquing that boat for lacking the soft ride traditionally expected from Princess. Now I'm assuming Princess have learnt from their experience. Still, I don't know how well they have master the IPS at this point.
Last edited:
Anders_P42
Well-Known Member
There are other solutions (Xenta joystick), that allow tradiditional shafts, bow and stern thrusters to be controlled and give the same effect as Pods. I can go sideways in my boat with bow and stern thrusters simultaniuosly engaged (have single shaft on my boat btw).
Your point about Prestige having other Pod models further up the size range is a good one. The princess owner who trades up will have to use shafts on his next boat and I'm sure Princess will just spec the Xenta joystick which is already an option on P52 and P56, which begs the question why didn't they install shafts and offer the same option on P49?
In terms of service cost, they're using new IPS based on new 550hp Volvo D8 engine (calling it IPS700). If they use same size Pod as IPS600 (D6-435), then your servicing cost may be correct. If it's the next size up and same Pod as IPS800 (D11 engine) then your in for £2.6K per side. Plus whatever it costs to apply propspeed, which seems to be Volvo's recommended antifoul for Pods (add another £800-1000?). So the Pod service cost could stand at £6K.
I wonder how much extra the Pods cost to install in the first place? Are you paying an extra 5-10% over shafts with V-drives? No idea but expect it cost more.
Then there's the risk of prop seals failing (they're a wear item according to Volvo), so it's probably a matter of when not if the seal fails and you're in for a £15-20K fix. Why Volvo designed the Pod with one oil circuit is anyone's guess. Why not have a separate lubrication system for the lower part of the pod and another dealing with the gears? At least when seal fails and seawater mixes with oil, it wouldn't take out the whole gearbox.
The fact props face foreward is another hate of mine, I seem to have built-up a dislike for Pods on a number of levels and they won't feature on my next boat. I'd sooner buy a second hand P52 on shafts than new P49 on IPS. But I appreciate there are folk who don't analyse like this, they see a nice boat at boat show and hand over their debit card.
rubberduck
Well-Known Member
Strikes me there's not a boat builder around capable of getting it right on this forum 
petem
Well-Known Member
I hadn't spotted that. Makes you wonder how much headroom there is in the sides of the master cabin. Incidentally, what is that starboard of the master berth, is it just a counter top?
Ah well, that could be handy, I could sit on the port sofa and be eye to eye with JTB and Deleted User on the starboard one
. Except that then they'd be blocking my view of the TV!
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Another mildly interesting change on this boat, well for us boat geeks anyway, is there is no wet bar or grill shown on the flybridge. Maybe it's optional, on the basis that lots of people choose not to use them, or maybe Princess think that the aft galley makes it unnecessary?
I still think the sofas are the same height btw, but we'll have to wait and see!
I still think the sofas are the same height btw, but we'll have to wait and see!
Anders_P42
Well-Known Member
Grill not shown on Flybridge spec as you say, but the box half way down on port side looks like one.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Can someone explain the point of IPS on jack shafts?
I thought that one of the points of IPS was to free up space otherwise taken up by the engines.
I thought that one of the points of IPS was to free up space otherwise taken up by the engines.
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
Think it allows the builder to place the engine weight to suit. Whilst the PODS are not as far back as out drives, they're still a good way back and the big blocks would not work well that far back, let alone fit. But they're not that long, just a metre or so on my boat.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Grill not shown on Flybridge spec as you say, but the box half way down on port side looks like one.
Strange, flybridge layout plan on PMYS website shows it without the wet bar (http://www.princess.co.uk/boat/princess-49/)
Maybe it is optional, or maybe they just included the wrong plan.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
It's is -but here as said its seems to be about customers ( newbies) expectations and wieght distribution .
I suspect they will be invioced once the punter takes del -so huge credit line for the builder and easy cheaper to install or put another way cheaper labour costs during build than a D12 shaft option .
I have said this before --you learn a lot with Mk-1 eye ball waliking around "ship yards "in the Med .
Every time I go the chandelier in Arie D Boom -la Rague -there are / is a IPS boat(s) chocked up with a pod off .
Be it a brand new or older .
The gents are at the other end of engine shed and when a walk through there they are in there side with all gears out .
New under warranty -fine ish -but hassle of the breakdown and loss of Q time .
After warranty - just washing €€€ away -never mind the depreciation that you only notice that at time you bail out in fact you do not really write a cheque out .
Then there's cleaning em in the med --diver or diving kit ? Cos they are just too deep to snorkel .
Then there's the IT -get that damp --- so if it not water getting in the pod it moisture in the black boxes .
Shafts every time -never see them on the workshop floor -well perhaps a 20 y old refurb .
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Good point -sea keeping
Agian mk1 eye ball --- look around ** ips stuff all seem to have flatter ie shallow deadrise at the stern area where the pods project .= slamming hull
** Oh I forgot they cover the lower hull up at boat show stands -
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
I don't get the weight thing.
Is the princess so light the engines make so much different.
My boat has V drives, so engines at the back and shafts. 50ft but I get three proper cabins in and a nice big galley plus saloon and dinette.
The boat doesn't suffer with a weight distribution issue though - and my engines are great big lumps of American pig iron.
I get the advantages of IPS - or should that be the alleged advantages - but im surprised some of that seem mitigated in most installation designs
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to see a cross section of your engine rooms versus mine Jez, I imagine that the blocks are in roughly the same position in terms of distance from the back of the boat, but that's purely an assumption.
Re the placing, it's my reckoning that Prestige are on the margin in terms of the D600 and the Pretige 500 set up and because of that the balance needs to be spot on. It is powerful enough for comfy 25kt cruising but it certainly wouldn't worry a Windy owner in a race. It's also a light boat for a 50'er so perhaps the weight needs to be brought forward to compensate.
As far as the advantages or otherwise go, I like I suspect an awful lot of punters; don't put the drive system at the heart of the buying decision. I know that's counter consensus on the forum but it's a real world reality. Layout - Price - Cost to change - style - manufacturer confidence probably all come ahead of the drive set up in terms of importance.
That's not to say that I am diametrically opposed to say, Pfinos opinion just that I'm a little indifferent to the whole issue. The boat works fine, and I like the joystick but it would not be a consideration when I change the boat in a couple of years time.....
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
I don't know your specific model Jez, but it was usual for Ferretti to continue the hull to the very back of the swim platform, then have a big locker inside. This must create a huge amount of stern buoyancy, and maybe that's what allows them to put the engines so far aft. V drives then become necessary to keep a sensible shaft angle.
As I said on another post you obviously can't do this with hi-lo swim platforms, so maybe that's why Princess have used jack shafts to keep a reasonable weight distribution.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Good point nick,
My boat is the same and is hull beneath the rear platform.
Perhaps that does help with the balance
My boat is the same and is hull beneath the rear platform.
Perhaps that does help with the balance
