Princess 49

petem said:
New Ferrerti 450 too, same layout, same step.
http://itayachtscanada.com/new-ferretti-450/
Click to expand...

Looks lovely and on balance I think the full height fridge freezer on our 500 is the only layout issue. Easily countered by a camera to an extent but it does reduce visibility to the Port aft quarter.

Looks like Princess have kept unit height down which is a good decision.
 
petem said:
New Ferretti 450 too, same layout, same step. Proper shafts though.
http://itayachtscanada.com/new-ferretti-450/
Click to expand...
Interestingly, also the Ferretti appears to have exactly the same issue in the master cabin (floor and roof at different height in the center and in the sides) that I tried to explain in my post #24.
I'm curious to see if the P49 saloon will really look like the mock-up posted by jtb, because that doesn't allow for a symmetrical raised roof in the master cabin below.
And while stepped floors and roofs are ugly regardless (as the master cabin pic of the F450 shows), by making them asymmetrical in a cabin where the bed is in the center, the result would be beyond ugliness, imho. :ambivalence:
 
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Nick_H said:
Mind you, if a Princess 52 really is £1.2m then I may have to get on a Prestige at some stage!
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Wow that is an ambitious price. IIRC the Prestige 680 wasn't a whole lot more than that. I did make a point of going on the Prestige 680 directly after the Princess 68 at LIBS and there is a difference in finish and the Princess is on shafts with bigger engines of course but thats not enough IMHO to justify the more than £0.5m price difference. I can definitely see why people buy Prestige boats and if I was in the market for a new boat, I would definitely give them serious consideration

As for the depreciation thing, I'm not even sure that the Prestige 680 will depreciate more than the Princess 68 in cash terms anyway. The Princess 68 at close to £2m is for sure going to drop more than £1m in 10yrs whereas the Prestige 680 at £1.4m or whatever is probably going to drop less than that. Then as Nigelpickin says, you can invest the difference in purchase price anyway and offset the depreciation on the Prestige. Generally, I just think that the secondhand market can no longer support the inflated new boat prices that the likes of Princess are asking
 
Whitelighter said:
Was impressed by the 550 at boot. 45ft with three cabins looks a good replacement for the old P45. Nice to see Ferretti building mid sized boats again
Click to expand...
Ferretti seem to have got more realistic on their new boat pricing too but FWIW my view is that they've cut back on fit and finish as well and I see they still haven't learnt about proper helm seating either. Again FWIW, classic Ferrettis like what you have are better quality boats than what they are producing now but on the other hand maybe they understand that the market just won't support stratospheric new boat pricing anymore
 
Deleted User said:
Wow that is an ambitious price. IIRC the Prestige 680 wasn't a whole lot more than that. I did make a point of going on the Prestige 680 directly after the Princess 68 at LIBS and there is a difference in finish and the Princess is on shafts with bigger engines of course but thats not enough IMHO to justify the more than £0.5m price difference. I can definitely see why people buy Prestige boats and if I was in the market for a new boat, I would definitely give them serious consideration

As for the depreciation thing, I'm not even sure that the Prestige 680 will depreciate more than the Princess 68 in cash terms anyway. The Princess 68 at close to £2m is for sure going to drop more than £1m in 10yrs whereas the Prestige 680 at £1.4m or whatever is probably going to drop less than that. Then as Nigelpickin says, you can invest the difference in purchase price anyway and offset the depreciation on the Prestige. Generally, I just think that the secondhand market can no longer support the inflated new boat prices that the likes of Princess are asking
Click to expand...

I think that JFM recently made the point as well, depreciation is killing new boat sales; people aren't prepared or can't afford to take a bath every 3 years if it results in a 30% loss in the trade through.
I am well aware of the disparity in quality between brands and where Prestige sit in the scheme of things; quality versus cost was a big consideration for us and at the end of the day, to a working class chap the boat seems pretty special anyway :)

But I am realistic about where the efficiencies are made and about how different people have varying perceptions regarding value for money and that to some, my boat is a little in the IKEA side :) whilst I'm a bit of an ambassador for brand Prestige I have friends with better built boats; they just have more money than me. :)
My view on the P49 is that if they get the layout right, deploy IPS effectively and maintain the quality then there are still plenty of people willing to pay a premium for that.

As an aside, I was on the Prestige 680 last week and it's the first time I remember being on a boat of that value and thinking that it was a bargain. I think Prestige are going to need to introduce a second production line ASAP
 
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Deleted User said:
Ferretti seem to have got more realistic on their new boat pricing too but FWIW my view is that they've cut back on fit and finish as well and I see they still haven't learnt about proper helm seating either. Again FWIW, classic Ferrettis like what you have are better quality boats than what they are producing now but on the other hand maybe they understand that the market just won't support stratospheric new boat pricing anymore
Click to expand...

Interestingly my host on the stand at boot (the Spanish Ferretti dealer) said exactly the same thing
 
The Ferretti 450 looks great, shows that mid-ships cabin can be done on sub 50' boat without IPS. Wonder how much? And shame there's no UK branch...
 
I would be very surprised if a P52 cost £1.2 million. I only have a price list from the Southampton show but base price RRP went from £671k - 682k plus Vat £805k - 818k inc.

I appreciate it is possible to spec a boat up but fair to say there will be a bit of movement, particularly around options.

One of the things that's always struck me about Prestige is the fact that whilst the headline base price for the boat seems very reasonable many of the "options" are things I would expect as standard fit and many seem expensive, disproportionate to a "bargain" boat.

Anchoring kit (non stainless) £3,996 - (Std on P68)
Hi-lo bathing platform - £21,800 - (std on P68)
Raymarine electronic pack - £45,600 (P68 price includes chart plotter, radar, VHF, Autopilot etc.)
Mooring kit - £1,622 - (std on P68 which comes with twin powered winches aft)
Flybridge teak - £7,500 (std on P68)
Washer dryer - £1,800 (std on P68)
Dishwasher - £1,400 (std on P68)
Decent upholstery fabric in the saloon £6-8,000
Covers for flybridge & cockpit £9,100
Ice maker - £2,500 (std on P68)
48 inch telly in saloon - £3,800 (std on P68 inc surround sound etc.)
Dual fuel filters - £3,500 (std on P68)
Electric flaps (I assume trim tabs) £2,500 (std on P68)
4 cabin layout - £6,200 (std on P68)
Tropical A/C £48,300
Med A/C £44,800
Telescopic gangway £32,000
Gyroscopic stabilisation £78,500
22.5Kva Genny £26,200

I don't claim the above list is extensive but I know when I looked at the 500 flybridge prior to buying our P50 there were a few high ticket "options" packs which if you didn't tick them meant you weren't going anywhere. The headline price meant we though about it but by the time we'd done a basic fag packet calculation there wasn't quite the saving we were expecting.

Ultimately a Prestige will be a cheaper boat to buy and I totally respect the production methods / choice of materials which help to achieve this saving. "Ikea" needn't be a slur. Hard wearing surfaces in a boat are good news.

And yes, you do have to accept IPS which I wouldn't. I'm not saying it's bad - the P49 has it, but it isn't for us. I like the simplicity of shafts and fear any fuel savings could be quickly swallowed up by increased maintenance costs. I also understand shafts, getting the boat in and out of tight spots is second nature.

Henry :)
 
Good points and yes the options soon add up, although discounting on msrp and packages will help the typical final price. With exchange rate as is I imagine that the P 49 will come out around 20% more expensive than a Prestige 500; lets see. What Princess shouldn't get involved in is a race to the bottom in terms of price against their continental rivals, esp prestige/MC
I think that IPS is crucial at this size; most customers will either be new entrants or upsizing from stern drives and shafts will seem to be last gen. I know that's not the case but it's a reality in terms of the kind of customer coming through.
 
Having given the Princess 49 some scrutiny, it would only be fair to give the Squadron 53 the same treatment.

Deck plans can be found here: http://www.fairline.com/en/boats/squadron/53/deckplan

Obviously the limited headroom in the mid cabin remains which will be a show stopper for some. But it does have some notable features. I guess the first of these would be the choice of galley up or galley down. The galley up option makes space for a handy utility room but I can't say I'm that keen on having all the seating down the port side (the sideboard option is even less pointless IMO).

For those that like galley down (perhaps hosted boats), the main deck looks like a great party space with loads of seating.

It's on shafts too that could make it more attractive for those that don't like pods.
 
Whilst sat on the P52 I asked the chap how much it was, it was already sold and I was told £1.2 million at which point I fell off the seat and left quickly. I agree the finish is a step up from Prestige, but you pay your money and all that!.
I looked at the p49 before deciding on the prestige 500 all but on plans, I knew what I could get the 500 for give or take and fully spec'd the p49 was tipping out over 150k more for pretty much the same spec.
No deals were going to be available as its a brand new boat and princess obviously won't need to discount as they have a loyal following which is understandable.
My point is unless you have a bottomless pit of money why would you wish to spend this extra amount for what most of us use for 8-10 weekends a year and a couple of weeks in the summer. I certainly have done the same and bought 2 houses with the savings I made.
 
Beggars belief the price inflation on their boats, P52 was reviewed by YBW June 13 at £830K inc VAT with common options. Price increase of £400K in not even three years! Talk about moving the goal posts.
 
Anders_P42 said:
The Ferretti 450 looks great, shows that mid-ships cabin can be done on sub 50' boat without IPS. Wonder how much? And shame there's no UK branch...
Click to expand...
Ferretti use a V drive set up on many of their boats which gives the same kind of advantage as IPS in terms of moving the engines aft to allow more accommodation forward. To be honest I don't know why other builders don't use this kind of arrangement more
 
Deleted User said:
Ferretti use a V drive set up on many of their boats which gives the same kind of advantage as IPS in terms of moving the engines aft to allow more accommodation forward. To be honest I don't know why other builders don't use this kind of arrangement more
Click to expand...

In fact Princess used V drives on the P50, which is same length as P49 give or take an inch
 
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I would be interested to see an actual real world price for the P52 rather than "the bloke said it was £1.2 million" at a boat show.

We all know that boat shows require a large influx of staff, not all of whom are 100% familiar with the products they are allocated to guard.

Saving £150k on a P49 at list price "That no deals were going to be available on" against a haggled down Prestige 500 is a little unrealistic. Given all that's been said about the Boats dot crew I can't believe there wouldn't be a bit of love available on the Prinny so the real world the gap is likely to be less.

Henry :)
 
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