robertj
Active member
How do you get an exemption certificate to produce to the French authorities for a pre 1985 yacht.
Pre 1985 VAT status in France
- Thread starter robertj
- Start date
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
I don't think there is such a thing but the original bill of sale with date would do.
bbg
Active member
What problem do you have / foresee that will need an "exemption certificate"?
vyv_cox
Well-known member
The reality seems to be that a request to inspect a VAT-paid certificate is virtually unknown. The RYA ran a survey on this topic a few years ago and found nearly no examples. Expensive new mobos registered in Gibraltar or Jersey might attract attention but outside of these most unlikely. My (just) pre-1985 boat has been permanently based outside UK in Europe since 1996 but nobody has ever questioned VAT status, despite several fairly intensive document inspections.
Tin Tin
New member
Our boat is 1984 vintage.
Never been asked to prove VAT status in the 12 years she's in France.
dunedin
Well-known member
But I think the past 12 years may not be a good guide to the next few years, regarding checks on U.K. flagged vessels. The low profile, quiet introduction of Brexit may change things in future, in terms of interest by French officials in the VAT status of U.K. boats.
robertj
Active member
The reason I ask is a friend was boarded and asked to prove his vat status. His boat is 1970. He said he thinks he has the original bill sale at home. They (french customs) did not want to know when he said it’s pre 1984.
Produce documentation to prove vat status or it will be calculated for him to pay.
Would it be on the original price or on the value now?
Two other English boats since I’ve been here have been boarded and asked to prove vat status.
Produce documentation to prove vat status or it will be calculated for him to pay.
Would it be on the original price or on the value now?
Two other English boats since I’ve been here have been boarded and asked to prove vat status.
robertj
Active member
I think VYV the old Mary Hopkins song is relevant from now on.
greeny
Well-known member
When the Vat documentation was being requested by Portuguese Policia a couple of years ago, they asked for a T2L form from uk. This document is freely available from Salford HMRC and they require no documentary proof before issuing it to you, (usually within a week of application). There is a thread on the forum about this (read it) and the T2L was accepted by the Portuguese of vat payment. The T2L actually has no validity as a proof of vat paid status but it seems to do the trick here in PT. Costs nothing so well worth getting.
Poignard
Well-known member
My yacht was built in 1967 and I carry the Certificate of Registration and a copy of the bill-of-sale. What was the outcome for your friend? Did he have to pay VAT or was he given time to produce the documents proving his boat's age?
maxi77
Active member
Vat is in some ways a funny tax because it apparently is illegal for any nation to charge it twice. I was also told that the current bill of sale is proof that VAT is a UK responsibility. How things will fare in years to come, though as things are going at present badly is my guess
PHN
Member
There is an old thread on this topic stating that EU VAT for pre 1985 boats only applies to boats in the EU by 1993 which has to be proven.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...e-VAT-regulations-for-Yacht-build-before-1985
Other than that we all know that the reality of life is that sometimes officials have their own rules.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...e-VAT-regulations-for-Yacht-build-before-1985
Other than that we all know that the reality of life is that sometimes officials have their own rules.
robertj
Active member
Thanks for that. I will contact my HMRC.
robertj
Active member
Boarded last week and produce by September 16th 2019.
The other chap didn’t say what time frame to produce.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Sounds like robertj needs to contact the RYA ASAP with some detail about these three cases.
Everything I've read on this topic is that it's a non-issue. If that's wrong/changed then it needs to be communicated clearly. Preferably by the French Government and failing that by the RYA.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Difficult to understand why the French are taking this interest. After Brexit it might be understandable with obviously new vessels but not with older ones at present.
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
It is probably a similar story to red diesel in Belgium. It is the law and up until now no one has vigorously enforced it however it is quite within the rights of countries to check the VAT status of a vessel along with its other papers. With the possibility of the UK leaving the EU without a deal and without such mundane matters cleared up I would expect customs officers in all EU countries to take a look at all ships papers particularly those British flagged vessels permanently moored in their country.
greeny
Well-known member
Don't just contact any HMRC. It needs to be Salford office who deal with the T2L's.
Find the thread and read it. Its very simple and the blank form is attached to one of the posts there. Very easy but remember to put a stamped addressed envelope in the application.
Birdseye
Well-known member
Its happened before and will happen again. Previously the reason has been the French government attempting to reduce manning and their staff attempting to prove they are doing a worthwhile job. But we have also had cases where the issue was political against les robifs.
When fench air traffic controllers strike they target us. When the french fishing fleet has issues they target british boats. We've had wagons of lamb burned out. .
boatmike
Well-known member
The RYA put out a document in Jan 2008 titled " Value Added Tax - your frequently asked questions answered. I quote "Vessels that were in use as private pleasure craft prior to 1st Jan 1985 and that were in the EU on Dec 31st 1992, have deemed VAT paid status under EU Single Market transitional arrangements." This effectively means that if the normal VAT documents are not able to be supplied or shown, provided that there is evidence that the vessel was in the EU on Dec 31st 1992 when the EU single market was created and can prove the vessels age prior to 1st Jan 1985 all is well. HOWEVER be aware that French officials are often woefully ignorant of the rules but I have found that insisting you are right and sticking to your guns with confidence (as you can) usually gets them to give in with a gallic shrug. I only once had a problem with this when boarded by a hoard of border control idiots outside Ouistreham. In the end I mentioned the word "harrassment" and they buggered off. Frankly they can often be officious but back down when faced with facts they don't understand.